Now this is too much !

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The first convoy left Capetown for Gibraltar on September 3. By October there were up to 16 convoys at sea at any one time.

Hmm, i wonder which ships were sunk then ? Compared to all ships heading to or from England convoys were the exception as far as i read, in 1939 and the first half of 1940 ?
You may be right, but in most of the accounts that have been published the few convoys that were, were scarcely defended, if at all.
Seldomly a real destroyer, but often just harbour tugs and hastily repaired ships of all kinds, pressed into duty. Up to 1941 seldomly a corvette, but those were slower than the U-boats, which would just outrun them on the surface.
What rendered the ASDIC useless was that the boats were going in surfaced, at full speed like a "Schnellboot", so ASDIC was pretty useless and few ships had radar - even then a U-boat closer than 1000 meters was invisible on a radar screen, so the boats were relatively secure at night.

Most accounts well into 1940 show U-boats halting single freighters, still under the prize law (giving a warning shot, control papers, and then let a neutral go, or sink a british vessel). I admit England reacted much faster however, than it had in WW1. After 1940 usually only fast ships like modern freighters or troop ships sailed alone, relying on their speed and the U-boats being interested in the convoys.

Greetings,
Catfish

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Hmm, i wonder which ships were sunk then ? Compared to all ships heading to or from England convoys were the exception as far as i read, in 1939 and the first half of 1940 ?
You may be right, but in most of the accounts that have been published the few convoys that were, were scarcely defended, if at all.

I can't speak to who the u-boats attacked. I only know my research into the convoys. You can find out how many convoys and what ships were involved on any day of the war here:
http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/index.html (click on 'Convoy Finder')

On October 1, 1939 there were 15 convoys at sea. Eleven of them were cross-channel convoys; the other four were from/to Halifax or Capetown. The Halifax convoy (HX.3) was escorted by a light cruiser and two Canadian destroyers. That's not much, so even a single u-boat would have a decent chance of bagging a merchant or two.

Even worse, the so-called convoy out of Jamaica was three merchants with no escort.

What I find interesting, and unexplained, is the fact that the Channel convoy leaving Loire for Bristol on the 1st had no escort, while the one the very next day had five!

You're right - there were a lot of single ships at sea, but every day saw a large convoy and a bunch of smaller ones somewhere.

[Catfish]

Hello,

thanks for the links and information, SailorSteve the convoy page link is really a phantastic resource. You wrote
" ... You're right - there were a lot of single ships at sea, but every day saw a large convoy and a bunch of smaller ones somewhere ..."
Well, Germany somehow lost the war - and it was decided at sea, with all kind of resources getting to England despite the odds.

To CCIP - i agree later in the war, but initially few destroyers were doing convoy service or so it seems. Anyway their numbers were too scarce to protect all merchant shipping around the british isles - the 40 (?) aging US destroyers received through the lend and lease agreement were requested for a reason.

The boats would then try to attack before the destroyers met them for the last miles to escort them through the western approaches, or along the northern route.
Later in the war, but long before Hitler declared war to the US, the US destroyers had accompanied convoys to mid-atlantic, and then let them go from there, then shielded by british destroyers - at the "Momp" (mid-ocean meeting point). Some destroyers just steamed on and helped their british friends in detecting U-boats, sometimes even dephth charging them, without war declaration.
The US had just extended their territorial waters to the mid-atlantic, to make any attack on "their" western side a reason for entering the war - something Hitler tried to avoid at all costs. But this took some time and it was not done until 1942 or so i think.


To TDW and BilgeRat:

There seem to be different generations of sensors built-into SH5, but i have no idea whether and how they work correct - or if at the right time - or if at all.
This is a very good site for ASDIC information:
http://jproc.ca/sari/index.html

I know it is usually doubtable to quote the internet, however this is exactly what i read in german books (and i am very thankful i do not have to translate all that, already at 50+ pages english text about Zeppelin attacks to translate) ..

From this site:
" ... To say that convoys were well protected by Asdic would be an understatement especially in the early years of the war. Typically, a convoy consisting of 30 to 50 merchant ships created a perimeter distance of 16 to 18 miles. In theory, the escorts were positioned so that their Asdic beams overlapped, providing unbroken coverage of the convoy perimeter. The reality of the situation was different. An escort group usually consisted of one destroyer and three of four corvettes, barely enough to provide proper coverage especially with Asdic whose range limits averaged around 2000 yards under normal conditions. When convoys did have sufficient escorts, not all the Asdic sets were used simultaneously. ..."

I have no idea how to use the information in SH5, or if it is possible at all - would sure be a hell of a task.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish