Tuition hike protesters attack car carrying Prince Charles, Camilla - Page 2

Gerald · 12-10-10, 04:24 PM

Lessons must be learned from a security lapse which allowed protesters to smash the Prince of Wales' car window, Prime Minister David Cameron has said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11969030

Note: Update post, 10 December 2010 Last updated at 18:21 GMT

nikimcbee · 12-10-10, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Outrageous, the student protesters attacked Prince Charles car and a helpless looking horse.

Prince Charles was reported to be fine, but Camilla was a little shaken ...

I'm glad Steed was unhurt.

Jimbuna · 12-10-10, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimpy117

Personally, I don't care if england is in a hard time. Politicians talk and talk and talk about how "our children are our future" but then they let college tuition go through the roof. It's as if once we graduate high school they don't care. I'm glad to see such vigorous protest across the pond, education is something everyone should be able to have, and especially be able to have without getting buried in debt. Here in the USA and Britain, places where our parents had it pretty easy, the kids are now being pressed harder and harder. Tuition is skyrocketing, its expected to double in the next 10 years, something i highly doubt the CPI will do. I recall my parents saying that they worked an entire summer to pay their tuition for the year. Now, us kids work an entire summer to pay for the part they're aid or loans do not cover.

There is going to be a rude awakening in this nation when only the few can afford higher education. Unfortunately I think that day is soon to come.

^

Platapus · 12-10-10, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Everything should be free, and we should all be getting a salary of a $ million a year. That would solve everything.

Hmm assuming that the number of adults in the US is about 200 million. Paying everyone $1 million would be $200,000,000,000,000. Two hundred trillion dollars per year. Hmm in a few years, if our spending is not put under control, that might be the cheaper alternative.

STEED · 12-11-10, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Everything should be free, and we should all be getting a salary of a $ million a year. That would solve everything.

If everything is free we no longer need money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

I'm glad Steed was unhurt.

I was busy eating a hot dog, no time to be caught up in that.

DarkFish · 12-11-10, 10:51 AM

They are planning some tuition reforms in the Netherlands as well.

As of now, university is basically free. I get almost enough money to live and pay for my education (almost enough to live, not enough to go out. Basically the government pays everything I need except my beer.)

But now they want to change their policy, so that college money gets increased to in my case €5000 a year (€3700 more than it currently is). Furthermore, if their plans come through, you only get money for the minimum duration of your study + 1 year. Electrical engineering has a theoretical minimum duration of 5 years, but almost nobody makes that, with the average being 7,5 years. Which means the average student suddenly has to cough up an extra €30000 out of nowhere.

And in the meantime they keep complaining that we don't learn enough and we should study more and longer

DarkFish · 12-11-10, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

I can't think of anyone in this country that has done more for the young generation then Prince Chuck.

Like using taxpayer's money to buy new limousines?

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finance...h_Royal_Family

The BBC estimated the annual cost to the British Public of keeping the Royal Family to be £41.5M though this figure does not include the cost of security provided by the Police and the Army.

August · 12-11-10, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFish

Like using taxpayer's money to buy new limousines?

It ain't like Prince Charles just decided one day to go out shopping for new cars instead of fund the British education system.

Government paid college tuition is a far greater burden on the taxpayer than the trappings of monarchy. That 41.5 million pounds wouldn't even make a dent in paying for it.

DarkFish · 12-11-10, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

It ain't like Prince Charles just decided one day to go out shopping for new cars instead of fund the British education system.

Government paid college tuition is a far greater burden on the taxpayer than the trappings of monarchy. That 41.5 million pounds wouldn't even make a dent in paying for it.

That number is without security costs and "ceremonial duties". With those costs included it would be much higher, probably much closer to 100 million pounds, though the exact costs have never been disclosed for obvious reasons.
Anyway, let's take 100 million pounds as a reasonable guess. Divide this by the 2 million students in the UK and it would be 50 pounds (=€60=$80) a student a year. I agree this is still not extraordinarily much, but does this make this mass theft right?

EDIT: make this number twice as much (see Vendor's post below).

EDIT2: meanwhile in the Netherlands, some guy who has thrown a glass candle holder against the Dutch queen's golden (!) coach in early september has been in our heaviest security prison ever since (normally reserved for the really heavy guys), awaiting trial for *terrorism* sometime next year!

Gerald · 12-11-10, 04:12 PM

http://www.republic.org.uk/What%20we...nces/index.php

XabbaRus · 12-11-10, 04:41 PM

Ironically the tories are to blame for all this.

Back when they were last in power in this great effort to show that the UK was a leading educational establishment they decided to allow polytechnics and other colleges that were perfectly good in their role as vocational educational establishments become universities. Therefore there were more institutions chasing the same amount of money, coupled with the fact that it was now derigeur for everyone to go to university as that is how we have been conditioned. Therefore, more uni's, more students, less money.

The quality of these new unis is debatable and has led to the rise of degree course such as "media studies", "sanitation and hygiene" which I am not joking is a bin man's course. Now with every tom dick and harry having a degree it has been devalued, therefore the leading institutions want to maintain their status as they do leading research, therefore need more money.

gimpy117 · 12-11-10, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFish

They are planning some tuition reforms in the Netherlands as well.

I like how they call it "reforms" it's not a reform at all, it's simply making the students pay more. Politicians can spin anything.

I think education should be the absolute LAST thing they cut. Were being edged out by china, our youth need education. Places like The Dominican Republic are paying to send their kids to our colleges, but we can't do the same when we are some of the most prosperous nations in the world?

robbo180265 · 12-11-10, 06:45 PM

Interesting thread and one close to my heart, you see my brother was at the demo and wrote an account of what happened.

He posted it on Facebook so I'll copy and paste it here for you guys to read. I believe what he said and it certainly sheds light on the situation. He swears that the media are deliberately painting a picture of violent youths in order to discredit the protesters and I believe him.

Anyway here's the account of the protest:

Our contingent from Birmingham University arrived at the demo at 3pm by which time, despite that everyone was in a good natured mood it was already kettled.
It was possible to get in but after that it was impossible to get out but as we had come all this way to be at the demo the majority of us went in. Just as an aside at this point i would like to say that i heard the Commissioner of police on the radio this morning who was saying that the only reason that they employ "containment" tactics is to pacify the crowd. To this i would like to say two things; (1)the people were already passive so why imprison people excercising their democratic right to protest? (2) imprisoning people does not pacify them, it makes them angry.
The ambience within the kettle was good natured, there were drummers and a mobile music system and people were either dancing or shouting slogans, in fact it was a pretty passive and laid back as demos go.
At around dusk, on the West side of the square, police on horseback delivered an unprovoked attack on us. I was not an eyewitness to this but everyone said it was unprovoked and this was borne out by a friend who phoned me to say she had just seen it live on BBC news and apparently the reporter was clearly shocked. Funnily enough this report and film has disappeared of the BBC website overnight.
At this point there was a general shift of people, of which i was one, to the East side of the square because the word went around that they were going to start letting people out but instead we encountered a wall of riot police who, by their body language, were clearly up for it!
We started to shout that we wanted to be let out bcause we were cold, thirsty and needed a piss to which there was no response. A few people, clearly exasperated threw plastic water bottles and sticks at them, there being no other ammunition anyway.
At this point one flank of the police charged us employing riot shields and and aiming for people's heads with their truncheons. It was at this point that one lad got hit hard enough to be brain damaged.
One of my companions went to the police line and demanded a medic for which he got punched in the face.
Several people laid him on a piece of temporary fencing as a stretcher and carried him to safety. At this point things really took off, whilst we started using crowd barriers as battering rams against their shield wall several other students starte to try and break in to the Treasury via the windows, the irony of an occupation of the Treasury building was not lost on anyone. The police claim there were rent-a-mob elements involved, this is not true, i saw young girls trying to smash through the bomb proof windows too.
Meanwhile we had built our own barricade by the corner of the Treasury building to stop them charging us and there appeared to be a bit of a stand-off.
Suddenly a flash squad of police appeared from another direction and ran towards the people trying to break in through the windows.
At this point, i didn't see it, but i heard from different sources that one of the police ran over the boy with the head injury and used the opportunity to hit him on the head again.
After all this the police advanced from all sides and concentrated us into an ever decreasing space and we shouted out that we demanded to be released.
They said that we would be released in small groups but after more than an hour this was proved to be a lie.
Eventually they said we could go but only via Westminster Bridge. At the time i thought this was odd and i realised that corralling us on a bridge was a tactical move on their part which it proved to be.
We were held on the bridge for well over an hour bounded by riot police on both sides. Finally we lost our patience and the general feeling was that if 3,000 people were to push that we could push our way out but it would appear we couldn't.
The net result of this was that everyone was squeezed together so tightly that nobody could move their arms or breathe properly, it was not possible for us to spread out because we were penned in by the police on both sides. We endured this for more than half an hour and it started to get serious when a few people started to pass out.
Finally they started to let us out one at a time and we had to pass through a 200 yard corridor of riot police and made to take our hats off so that we could be photographed.
This is an account of what what was largely a group of teenagers could do and i'm hugely proud of them.

The "kid with brain damage" actually had a stroke because of the attack on him with a truncheon

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11967098

jumpy · 12-11-10, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

The money for that "free" education has to come from somewhere. Maybe you Brits could cut back on NHS services or something?

No chance - we like our comunistical health service here

my uncle would have died many years before he eventually did without it.

Maybe politicians should learn to tell the truth for a change, even if it's not going to sway voters with election fever. Too long have successive generations of electorate listened to the forked tongue of popularist power mongers, only to be laughed at once a new government is voted in.
I think for the students it's slightly less about the actual fees system and more about the lies and broken election pledges; For the first time their idealism has been exposed for the blatant electioneering sham that it is and they are angry about it. I would be too if I cast my vote based on what any of these career politicians had to offer.

As for the royals... well, it was kinda naive of them to have such a high profile given what was happening in london at the time, surely all the money they have could pay for minders with a little common sense?

None of the royal persons were hurt, but I'd wager they have more of an insight into the plight of the common man now than they did a week ago hahaha - Heloooooo?! britain is fast becoming intolerant of fat, over privileged ticks.

I'm not anti monarchy, but really! They ought to know better.

EDIT:
Fact is, the media (yet again) have made a mahoosive song and dance about the 'rioting students' and how terrible it all is, but students today are much less demonstrative and anti establishment than they were back in the 70's - these days they only bother making a fuss if it's something that effects them directly. Plus there's a lot more students than there used to be back then - it's not what it could be if you believe the media hype.

Oberon · 12-11-10, 06:53 PM

Good account Robbo, I saw the charge live, and yeah the reporter was surprised by it, in fact they were talking to a reporter at the front line just before it happened and he was nearly run over by the horses as they mustered for the charge.
Also saw the charge at the treasury live.

The students are getting more organised now, I saw some improvised shields, and the fences as battering rams against the treasury was novel, however the police continue to have the upper hand in regards to body armour, shields and truncheons. If ever that were equalized, and the students did not fall back at a police charge...then the real chaos would begin.

When's the next one due?

12-10-10, 04:24 PM	#16
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Student fees protest: Cameron condemns royal attack Lessons must be learned from a security lapse which allowed protesters to smash the Prince of Wales' car window, Prime Minister David Cameron has said. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11969030 Note: Update post, 10 December 2010 Last updated at 18:21 GMT __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

12-11-10, 10:51 AM	#21
DarkFish Sea Lord Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Stinking drunk in Eindhoven, the Netherlands Posts: 1,844 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	They are planning some tuition reforms in the Netherlands as well. As of now, university is basically free. I get almost enough money to live and pay for my education (almost enough to live, not enough to go out. Basically the government pays everything I need except my beer.) But now they want to change their policy, so that college money gets increased to in my case €5000 a year (€3700 more than it currently is). Furthermore, if their plans come through, you only get money for the minimum duration of your study + 1 year. Electrical engineering has a theoretical minimum duration of 5 years, but almost nobody makes that, with the average being 7,5 years. Which means the average student suddenly has to cough up an extra €30000 out of nowhere. And in the meantime they keep complaining that we don't learn enough and we should study more and longer __________________

12-11-10, 04:12 PM	#25
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	http://www.republic.org.uk/What%20we...nces/index.php __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

12-11-10, 04:41 PM	#26
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Ironically the tories are to blame for all this. Back when they were last in power in this great effort to show that the UK was a leading educational establishment they decided to allow polytechnics and other colleges that were perfectly good in their role as vocational educational establishments become universities. Therefore there were more institutions chasing the same amount of money, coupled with the fact that it was now derigeur for everyone to go to university as that is how we have been conditioned. Therefore, more uni's, more students, less money. The quality of these new unis is debatable and has led to the rise of degree course such as "media studies", "sanitation and hygiene" which I am not joking is a bin man's course. Now with every tom dick and harry having a degree it has been devalued, therefore the leading institutions want to maintain their status as they do leading research, therefore need more money. __________________

12-11-10, 06:45 PM	#28
robbo180265 Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brighton, England.Party capital of the south Posts: 2,255 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	Interesting thread and one close to my heart, you see my brother was at the demo and wrote an account of what happened. He posted it on Facebook so I'll copy and paste it here for you guys to read. I believe what he said and it certainly sheds light on the situation. He swears that the media are deliberately painting a picture of violent youths in order to discredit the protesters and I believe him. Anyway here's the account of the protest: Our contingent from Birmingham University arrived at the demo at 3pm by which time, despite that everyone was in a good natured mood it was already kettled. It was possible to get in but after that it was impossible to get out but as we had come all this way to be at the demo the majority of us went in. Just as an aside at this point i would like to say that i heard the Commissioner of police on the radio this morning who was saying that the only reason that they employ "containment" tactics is to pacify the crowd. To this i would like to say two things; (1)the people were already passive so why imprison people excercising their democratic right to protest? (2) imprisoning people does not pacify them, it makes them angry. The ambience within the kettle was good natured, there were drummers and a mobile music system and people were either dancing or shouting slogans, in fact it was a pretty passive and laid back as demos go. At around dusk, on the West side of the square, police on horseback delivered an unprovoked attack on us. I was not an eyewitness to this but everyone said it was unprovoked and this was borne out by a friend who phoned me to say she had just seen it live on BBC news and apparently the reporter was clearly shocked. Funnily enough this report and film has disappeared of the BBC website overnight. At this point there was a general shift of people, of which i was one, to the East side of the square because the word went around that they were going to start letting people out but instead we encountered a wall of riot police who, by their body language, were clearly up for it! We started to shout that we wanted to be let out bcause we were cold, thirsty and needed a piss to which there was no response. A few people, clearly exasperated threw plastic water bottles and sticks at them, there being no other ammunition anyway. At this point one flank of the police charged us employing riot shields and and aiming for people's heads with their truncheons. It was at this point that one lad got hit hard enough to be brain damaged. One of my companions went to the police line and demanded a medic for which he got punched in the face. Several people laid him on a piece of temporary fencing as a stretcher and carried him to safety. At this point things really took off, whilst we started using crowd barriers as battering rams against their shield wall several other students starte to try and break in to the Treasury via the windows, the irony of an occupation of the Treasury building was not lost on anyone. The police claim there were rent-a-mob elements involved, this is not true, i saw young girls trying to smash through the bomb proof windows too. Meanwhile we had built our own barricade by the corner of the Treasury building to stop them charging us and there appeared to be a bit of a stand-off. Suddenly a flash squad of police appeared from another direction and ran towards the people trying to break in through the windows. At this point, i didn't see it, but i heard from different sources that one of the police ran over the boy with the head injury and used the opportunity to hit him on the head again. After all this the police advanced from all sides and concentrated us into an ever decreasing space and we shouted out that we demanded to be released. They said that we would be released in small groups but after more than an hour this was proved to be a lie. Eventually they said we could go but only via Westminster Bridge. At the time i thought this was odd and i realised that corralling us on a bridge was a tactical move on their part which it proved to be. We were held on the bridge for well over an hour bounded by riot police on both sides. Finally we lost our patience and the general feeling was that if 3,000 people were to push that we could push our way out but it would appear we couldn't. The net result of this was that everyone was squeezed together so tightly that nobody could move their arms or breathe properly, it was not possible for us to spread out because we were penned in by the police on both sides. We endured this for more than half an hour and it started to get serious when a few people started to pass out. Finally they started to let us out one at a time and we had to pass through a 200 yard corridor of riot police and made to take our hats off so that we could be photographed. This is an account of what what was largely a group of teenagers could do and i'm hugely proud of them. The "kid with brain damage" actually had a stroke because of the attack on him with a truncheon http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11967098

12-11-10, 06:53 PM	#30
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Good account Robbo, I saw the charge live, and yeah the reporter was surprised by it, in fact they were talking to a reporter at the front line just before it happened and he was nearly run over by the horses as they mustered for the charge. Also saw the charge at the treasury live. The students are getting more organised now, I saw some improvised shields, and the fences as battering rams against the treasury was novel, however the police continue to have the upper hand in regards to body armour, shields and truncheons. If ever that were equalized, and the students did not fall back at a police charge...then the real chaos would begin. When's the next one due?