More than Mexicans crossing the border (Maybe AZ has the right idea) - Page 2

Weiss Pinguin · 05-20-10, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Easy to insult another persons home when, You don't have the balls to put under your Avatar where your from.

Don't see what that has to do with it, but fine.

Ducimus · 05-20-10, 06:37 PM

Texas! Oh that explains everything!

Weiss Pinguin · 05-20-10, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Texas! Oh that explains everything!

Indeed

tater · 05-20-10, 07:43 PM

The proper solution to people coming across the border illegally is lethal force.

Won't take many killed before they line up and fill out paperwork like civilized people.

There is simply zero excuse for allowing people to come across at will. Zero. An illegal guy here in ABQ—who had been arrested for other crimes and never deported because APD wasn't supposed to ask— raped a SIX YEAR OLD a couple weeks ago. If you are in favor not enforcing the border, you are in favor of that rape. That was an "excess" crime. Had the border been enforced, it would not have happened. One such crime is too many. Are illegals more likely to commit crimes? No, not from what I've heard. Doesn't matter, since ANY crime they commit would otherwise not have happened.

Am I in favor of more LEGAL immigration? Sure, I have no problems with that. Lock the doors FIRST, and shoot to kill is fine with me.

SteamWake · 05-20-10, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Texas! Oh that explains everything!

Please elaborate.

05-21-10, 01:21 AM

Quote:

The proper solution to people coming across the border illegally is lethal force.

So how would that work ?
Do you just kill anyone near the border who you think might be illegal or kill everyone just in case they are illegal or do you have to stop them, check they really are illegal and then kill them?

GoldenRivet · 05-21-10, 02:10 AM

Border security is not an easy proposition.

You're talking about over 1500 miles of border. Almost all of which is open desert or rough terrain.

the answer here is not as backwards as placing machine gun nests every quarter mile.

there are multiple things that could be done here.

Why do illegals come to America? to secure employment which may not be available in their own country... so...

1. United States National ID - Similar to a passport but roughly the size of a driver's license. Contains all of the latest in anti-counterfeiting technology. They are valid for a 36 month period at which time they have to be renewed (much like a driver's license) They are numbered much like your driver's license has a DL number... any LEO enters the number into his computer and within minutes he will know if you are a legal US Citizen in possession of a valid NID or whether you are a person in possession of a forgery. These are not issued by states, but are instead issued on a federal level.

In order to be qualified to apply for a national ID you must meet all of the natural born or legally immigrated citizenship requirements. This is applied for at birth and is valid until your 16th birthday, and expires thereafter every 36 calendar months. The only personal information retained is whatever information would naturally be expected to appear on a Birth Certificate / Driver's license or passport.

Though this card does not have to be carried with you or readily accessible, it should be made available to a law enforcement officer upon his request assuming such a request was made after lawful contact (ie you broke some other law)

2. Employee Identity Numbers - Your United States National ID card number IS your employer ID number. If you apply for ANY job... your EID number, and your National ID card must be presented during the time of application.

3. Harsher laws for hiring or harboring of illegal immigrants - For example: If a corporation - say a construction contractor - during a random inspection is found to have employed illegal immigrants the company will be fined $250,000 for each of the first 10 illegal immigrant in employment, and $500,000 for each illegal immigrant beyond 10 in employment.

if a property owner or appartment complex or the like has been found renting property to an illegal immigrant, the property owner / complex etc in question is subject to a first offense fine of $10,000 for each illegal immigrant occupying the property furthermore, the property may be seized by the state and sold at auction (much like an impounded automobile).

if an individual, or dealer sells a car to any illegal immigrant, the entity must pay a fine of $25,000 or 5 times the appraised value of the vehicle whichever is greater. Furthermore, dealerships who have sold a car to an illegal may be seized by the state and their inventory and other assets sold at auction.

4. Streamline the LEGAL immigration channels - There are some immigrants who are here illegally because of the burdens associated with legal immigration. I know one young man who has been trying since he was 19 to become a legal citizen... he went to college on a student visa, he is 25 years old and still awaiting confirmation.

The state could even set up a list of "Nations in favorable standing for expedient immigration processing" if your nation is on the list... your immigration application is fast tracked.

5. Too many illegal immigrants jump the border to give birth - fine. Send The Federal Government of Mexico a f*ckin bill at the end of every quarter. "so what happens when they refuse to pay it?" thats cool... embargo all travel to Mexico.

tater · 05-21-10, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

So how would that work ?
Do you just kill anyone near the border who you think might be illegal or kill everyone just in case they are illegal or do you have to stop them, check they really are illegal and then kill them?

Overwatch on the border, someone crosses by more than a few hundred yards, and you drop them.

There is no legal way to cross at a spot that is not defined as an entrance. Anyone crossing is illegal there.

The anti-employer stuff I'm fine with too, but we need to lock down the border to stop these criminals. AZ has been catching over 30 bad criminals with the new law per week. Meaning robbery, rape, and murder suspects who are illegals. That's 1500 per year in AZ alone.

Let a million in legally, but ZERO in illegally. I'm fine with Apaches taking them out, frankly. That poor little girl at the gym here (she was in daycare while mom was in gym).

Blood_splat · 05-21-10, 10:47 AM

We need thousands of predator drones to patrol the border.

Sailor Steve · 05-21-10, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Please elaborate.

Geez! People are joking about each others' states, and some are getting offended. My own 'Location' note changes on a whim, but I've never made any secret that I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. Balls had nothing to do with WP's 'Location'. It's fun to put something 'cute' there. And neither one of the wisecracks were meant as insults, they were obviously jokes.

Anybody want to insult Utah? Good, so do I.

UnderseaLcpl · 05-21-10, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Texas! Oh that explains everything!

What you mean to say is "Texas! Oh, that explains everything in the best, biggest, and most badass fashion possible!"

05-21-10, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Overwatch on the border, someone crosses by more than a few hundred yards, and you drop them.

So like a policy a very extreme totalitarian dictatorship would adopt then.
How many thosands of extra people would you have to employ?
How much land would the government have to purchase to accomodate all those people and all their posts?
How many extra extra people will you have to employ to protect the coastline when they shift to that route instead?
How many more vessels will have to be purchased and maintained?
How many more shore facilities will have to be built to accomodate those?
Then of course you will have an increase in the already existing tunnels, how far back from the border are you going to have to maintain a free fire zoner thats closed to everyone?
How much land will have to be purchased for that?

What you put forward is a typical knee jerk proposal aimed at a problem that may sound tough and pro-active but is unrealistic, damn expensive and most importantly ineffective.

Quote:

AZ has been catching over 30 bad criminals with the new law per week.

I hate to break it to ya but the new law isn't in force yet

The only State and local people in Arizona doing that job are those who already have the delegation of authority from ICE under federal law.

AngusJS · 05-21-10, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

The proper solution to people coming across the border illegally is lethal force.

How about kids being brought along by their parents? How about pregnant women?

Kill them too?

tater · 05-21-10, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

I hate to break it to ya but the new law isn't in force yet

The only State and local people in Arizona doing that job are those who already have the delegation of authority from ICE under federal law.

OK, heard the 30 figure yesterday, I thought it was AZ, but it might have been the new procedure here in ABQ where ALL detainees caught by APD are now checked with ICE. SO maybe that was last week here in ABQ (I was driving when I heard it (local show) and my 3 YO was of course talking the entire time ("hey, daddy, what was that thing over there?" (repeat every 10 seconds for entire trip)).

Regardless, even if it was just extant law (again, the US federal law is far more harsh than the AZ law anyway), 1500 per year is too many—they've ALREADY COMMITTED THE CRIMES WHEN CAUGHT. That's 1500 excess crimes, and that's just those ICE got, and there is no way they catch 100%.

So, instead, lock the border down.

You said it was totalitarian. Nonsense. Totalitarian states point the guns INWARDS. If there were shoot to kill orders for LEAVING the US you';d be right. Stopping INVADERS is what the military is for. Illegal crossers are invaders.

As for women and children, I'd avoid taking them out—there is no shortage of men coming across, kill them first.

Or take out these guys first:

Ducimus · 05-21-10, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

What you mean to say is "Texas! Oh, that explains everything in the best, biggest, and most badass fashion possible!"

Somewhat on topic, im kinda in agreement with tater. I think if we pulled some overseas bases that do nothing but support the local economy of foreign countries and bring them back home and park them on the border... it would be a wonderful thing.

Oh yeah, and Meg Whiteman practically won my vote for governor with t Though i seriously doubt ANYONE could pull it off.

05-21-10, 02:10 AM	#22
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Border security is not an easy proposition. You're talking about over 1500 miles of border. Almost all of which is open desert or rough terrain. the answer here is not as backwards as placing machine gun nests every quarter mile. there are multiple things that could be done here. Why do illegals come to America? to secure employment which may not be available in their own country... so... 1. United States National ID - Similar to a passport but roughly the size of a driver's license. Contains all of the latest in anti-counterfeiting technology. They are valid for a 36 month period at which time they have to be renewed (much like a driver's license) They are numbered much like your driver's license has a DL number... any LEO enters the number into his computer and within minutes he will know if you are a legal US Citizen in possession of a valid NID or whether you are a person in possession of a forgery. These are not issued by states, but are instead issued on a federal level. In order to be qualified to apply for a national ID you must meet all of the natural born or legally immigrated citizenship requirements. This is applied for at birth and is valid until your 16th birthday, and expires thereafter every 36 calendar months. The only personal information retained is whatever information would naturally be expected to appear on a Birth Certificate / Driver's license or passport. Though this card does not have to be carried with you or readily accessible, it should be made available to a law enforcement officer upon his request assuming such a request was made after lawful contact (ie you broke some other law) 2. Employee Identity Numbers - Your United States National ID card number IS your employer ID number. If you apply for ANY job... your EID number, and your National ID card must be presented during the time of application. 3. Harsher laws for hiring or harboring of illegal immigrants - For example: If a corporation - say a construction contractor - during a random inspection is found to have employed illegal immigrants the company will be fined $250,000 for each of the first 10 illegal immigrant in employment, and $500,000 for each illegal immigrant beyond 10 in employment. if a property owner or appartment complex or the like has been found renting property to an illegal immigrant, the property owner / complex etc in question is subject to a first offense fine of $10,000 for each illegal immigrant occupying the property furthermore, the property may be seized by the state and sold at auction (much like an impounded automobile). if an individual, or dealer sells a car to any illegal immigrant, the entity must pay a fine of $25,000 or 5 times the appraised value of the vehicle whichever is greater. Furthermore, dealerships who have sold a car to an illegal may be seized by the state and their inventory and other assets sold at auction. 4. Streamline the LEGAL immigration channels - There are some immigrants who are here illegally because of the burdens associated with legal immigration. I know one young man who has been trying since he was 19 to become a legal citizen... he went to college on a student visa, he is 25 years old and still awaiting confirmation. The state could even set up a list of "Nations in favorable standing for expedient immigration processing" if your nation is on the list... your immigration application is fast tracked. 5. Too many illegal immigrants jump the border to give birth - fine. Send The Federal Government of Mexico a fckin bill at the end of every quarter. "so what happens when they refuse to pay it?" thats cool... embargo all travel to Mexico. __________________ Last edited by GoldenRivet; 05-21-10 at 02:21 AM.*

05-20-10, 06:37 PM	#17
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Texas! Oh that explains everything!

05-20-10, 07:43 PM	#19
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The proper solution to people coming across the border illegally is lethal force. Won't take many killed before they line up and fill out paperwork like civilized people. There is simply zero excuse for allowing people to come across at will. Zero. An illegal guy here in ABQ—who had been arrested for other crimes and never deported because APD wasn't supposed to ask— raped a SIX YEAR OLD a couple weeks ago. If you are in favor not enforcing the border, you are in favor of that rape. That was an "excess" crime. Had the border been enforced, it would not have happened. One such crime is too many. Are illegals more likely to commit crimes? No, not from what I've heard. Doesn't matter, since ANY crime they commit would otherwise not have happened. Am I in favor of more LEGAL immigration? Sure, I have no problems with that. Lock the doors FIRST, and shoot to kill is fine with me.

05-21-10, 10:47 AM	#24
Blood_splat Samurai Navy Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Beneath the waves Posts: 568 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	We need thousands of predator drones to patrol the border.