Fed up of dying - Page 2

Hylander_1314 · 04-30-10, 10:21 PM

It's always best, and the safest thing to do if you're in port after a mission, or before accepting orders to disembark.

Keelbuster · 04-30-10, 10:57 PM

I find that in TMO 1.9, convoy escorts give up after a couple hours. I have had some severe depth chargings where I assumed I was a dead man. But with basic evasion tactics, even in the worst conditions, I have found that eventually the escorts peel off to rejoin the convoy. Just tonight, I hit a convoy hard coming out of the Bungo strait, sinking 3 ships. It was perfectly still water, and having attacked from about 1500 yards, naturally I was detected by one of the escorts. The other two closed in, and for two hours they took turns DCing the hell out of me. I used the basic tactic of when a DD does his DC run, I change course by about 30 degrees (away from the bulk of them) and change depth by say 50 ft. I'm in a Balao, so I operate around 500 ft, going down to 600 in extreme emergencies. Anyway, they had me on sonar, and no amount of depth would make them lose me. I just had to wait it out, dodge the ashcans, and eventually, miraculously, they all decided to blaze back in the direction of the convoy. I got away with light damage to the stern tubes. I've had this experience before...if you try to outlast them, they will eventually leave...

Rockin Robbins · 05-01-10, 06:18 AM

Bill,

Planes are not a problem if you handle them right. You don't have to and it isn't helpful to stay submerged all day or even for an hour after sighting one. All that does is discharge your batteries so you aren't combat ready.

Remember, a submarine is a surface boat with the unique ability to submerge when absolutely necessary, and to stay submerged for the absolute minimum amount of time. With airplanes, that means about 10 minutes total per plane. Our goal is to have 100% charged batteries available to fight at all times.

Let me explain. First of all, this strategy needs air search radar, a pretty common thing on American submarines. When a plane is first spotted on radar, you have several minutes of decision time. Let's use them! A couple of planes just showed up. What are they up to?

I immediately draw a 5 mile radius circle around my sub. That's my danger zone. If the planes enter that zone, they can possibly see me. My goal is never to be seen by a plane, EVER. That means no John Wayne popgun ineffectually giving away my position so the pilot can call his good buddies to the party and I'm swarmed for several days. I'm not going there. If a plane can possibly see me I'm pulling the plug.

OK, we have the visibility danger circle around the sub. Now, from the position of the plane, draw two lines from the plane(s) to both outsides of the circle (tangent lines).

Not every plane is going to enter your danger zone. If it does not we want to stay on the surface. 100% battery charge at all times you know... With our "ice cream cone" chart, we can easily tell with plenty of time whether this bad guy is going to be a problem. If he stays outside the cone, we're golden. If he crosses the line to the inside it's time to initiate avoidance.

At that point our goal is to be at or below periscope depth when he crosses the circle line of our danger zone. Pick a number below 100', I always just use about 110, your mileage may differ but I haven't had a problem with that and full-blown TMO. As you cross periscope depth, start your stopwatch. When it reaches 5 minutes, press surface ("s"). Do not dawdle around at periscope depth looking for planes. He's gone. No buddies not previously spotted on radar have had time to enter your danger zone. Your combat awareness is 100%. You are safe. Just get up there and resume surface travel.

You haven't been spotted. No little flyboy buddies will be checking you out. Also, I run around at best fuel economy, about 9 knots all the time. during my plane avoidance drill I don't touch the throttle. I submerge normally, none of this crash dive silliness, because you have plenty of time. Planes are not an issue in TMO. They are not a threat. They cannot ever see you.

The only thing that can hold you down is an escort. And if you didn't follow my airplane avoidance strategy, you're not ready for them because you have low batteries. You're a dead duck. Why would you care whether you were killed by a plane or by an escort. Wouldn't you rather not be killed by either?

Chubster · 05-01-10, 11:39 AM

Hi Rockin....it was reading one of your other tutorials...excellent by the way....that led me to ask a question on here. You have mentioned it again above.

The "5 mile radius circle around your sub".....have you managed to link this so that it follows your sub.....if so how? The manual states its possible and would be extremely useful if poss

Rockin Robbins · 05-01-10, 02:26 PM

I'm afraid linking plotted devices to your sub on the nav chart was never implemented, although reading the manual tells you it was part of the plan. As a practical matter, you can usually pick up the last one you plotted and move it to your present position. If not, it takes a second to draw a new one.

Leaving them out there has some utility. Then you can actually quantify how many airplanes you've avoided and where you were at the time. This can help you find areas less traveled by the planes.

Harmsway! · 05-02-10, 06:39 AM

The biggest difficulty with your method is TC.

I say that only because I'm doing basically the same thing as you and find it impossible to cover larger distances in reasonable game play time. I will only use TC when on surface and with no threats present. So I find in heavy plane traffic areas it takes forever (real time) bobbing above and below continually.

However I will continue to use this method only now with Rockin Robbins refinements which are superior to my own sloppy way.

Now any suggestions on getting somewhere without spending hours of real-time traveling between objectives?

Harmsway! · 05-02-10, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Leaving them out there has some utility. Then you can actually quantify how many airplanes you've avoided and where you were at the time. This can help you find areas less traveled by the planes.

Drawing those cones is one thing I wasn't doing but should help me stay in routes with lest air travel. Its just that there are hours in SH4 where all I do is try to get from one place to another. I tell myself it gives me a better taste for what it was like for a real submariner. Long journeys with short periods of time with intense emotions.

Admiral8Q · 05-02-10, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmsway!

Now any suggestions on getting somewhere without spending hours of real-time traveling between objectives?

I find you should dive to pd in daylight. Stick the radar up and dive deep when a plane comes over you. I try to get 128 or 512 TC but it keeps getting bumped to 8.

BillBam · 05-02-10, 08:48 AM

Assuming you have radar you can easily travel longer distances or between patrol areas at up to 2K TC and still have plenty of time to dive to 100' to avoid the planes that come into your cone area.

I patrol during the day on the surface at 128 to 256 and at night up to 512 and never have a problem with planes.

Admiral8Q · 05-02-10, 11:47 AM

I have that damn Osaka recon mission. I put TC up then planes came out of nowhere and found me.

04-30-10, 10:21 PM	#16
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	It's always best, and the safest thing to do if you're in port after a mission, or before accepting orders to disembark. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

04-30-10, 10:57 PM	#17
Keelbuster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: BA 72 Posts: 1,092 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I find that in TMO 1.9, convoy escorts give up after a couple hours. I have had some severe depth chargings where I assumed I was a dead man. But with basic evasion tactics, even in the worst conditions, I have found that eventually the escorts peel off to rejoin the convoy. Just tonight, I hit a convoy hard coming out of the Bungo strait, sinking 3 ships. It was perfectly still water, and having attacked from about 1500 yards, naturally I was detected by one of the escorts. The other two closed in, and for two hours they took turns DCing the hell out of me. I used the basic tactic of when a DD does his DC run, I change course by about 30 degrees (away from the bulk of them) and change depth by say 50 ft. I'm in a Balao, so I operate around 500 ft, going down to 600 in extreme emergencies. Anyway, they had me on sonar, and no amount of depth would make them lose me. I just had to wait it out, dodge the ashcans, and eventually, miraculously, they all decided to blaze back in the direction of the convoy. I got away with light damage to the stern tubes. I've had this experience before...if you try to outlast them, they will eventually leave... __________________

05-01-10, 06:18 AM	#18
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Bill, Planes are not a problem if you handle them right. You don't have to and it isn't helpful to stay submerged all day or even for an hour after sighting one. All that does is discharge your batteries so you aren't combat ready. Remember, a submarine is a surface boat with the unique ability to submerge when absolutely necessary, and to stay submerged for the absolute minimum amount of time. With airplanes, that means about 10 minutes total per plane. Our goal is to have 100% charged batteries available to fight at all times. Let me explain. First of all, this strategy needs air search radar, a pretty common thing on American submarines. When a plane is first spotted on radar, you have several minutes of decision time. Let's use them! A couple of planes just showed up. What are they up to? I immediately draw a 5 mile radius circle around my sub. That's my danger zone. If the planes enter that zone, they can possibly see me. My goal is never to be seen by a plane, EVER. That means no John Wayne popgun ineffectually giving away my position so the pilot can call his good buddies to the party and I'm swarmed for several days. I'm not going there. If a plane can possibly see me I'm pulling the plug. OK, we have the visibility danger circle around the sub. Now, from the position of the plane, draw two lines from the plane(s) to both outsides of the circle (tangent lines). Not every plane is going to enter your danger zone. If it does not we want to stay on the surface. 100% battery charge at all times you know... With our "ice cream cone" chart, we can easily tell with plenty of time whether this bad guy is going to be a problem. If he stays outside the cone, we're golden. If he crosses the line to the inside it's time to initiate avoidance. At that point our goal is to be at or below periscope depth when he crosses the circle line of our danger zone. Pick a number below 100', I always just use about 110, your mileage may differ but I haven't had a problem with that and full-blown TMO. As you cross periscope depth, start your stopwatch. When it reaches 5 minutes, press surface ("s"). Do not dawdle around at periscope depth looking for planes. He's gone. No buddies not previously spotted on radar have had time to enter your danger zone. Your combat awareness is 100%. You are safe. Just get up there and resume surface travel. You haven't been spotted. No little flyboy buddies will be checking you out. Also, I run around at best fuel economy, about 9 knots all the time. during my plane avoidance drill I don't touch the throttle. I submerge normally, none of this crash dive silliness, because you have plenty of time. Planes are not an issue in TMO. They are not a threat. They cannot ever see you. The only thing that can hold you down is an escort. And if you didn't follow my airplane avoidance strategy, you're not ready for them because you have low batteries. You're a dead duck. Why would you care whether you were killed by a plane or by an escort. Wouldn't you rather not be killed by either? __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

05-01-10, 02:26 PM	#20
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	I'm afraid linking plotted devices to your sub on the nav chart was never implemented, although reading the manual tells you it was part of the plan. As a practical matter, you can usually pick up the last one you plotted and move it to your present position. If not, it takes a second to draw a new one. Leaving them out there has some utility. Then you can actually quantify how many airplanes you've avoided and where you were at the time. This can help you find areas less traveled by the planes. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

05-02-10, 11:47 AM	#25
Admiral8Q Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada Posts: 1,077 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	I have that damn Osaka recon mission. I put TC up then planes came out of nowhere and found me. __________________

05-01-10, 11:39 AM	#19
Chubster Frogman Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 288 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	Hi Rockin....it was reading one of your other tutorials...excellent by the way....that led me to ask a question on here. You have mentioned it again above. The "5 mile radius circle around your sub".....have you managed to link this so that it follows your sub.....if so how? The manual states its possible and would be extremely useful if poss

05-02-10, 06:39 AM	#21
Harmsway! XO Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 400 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	The biggest difficulty with your method is TC. I say that only because I'm doing basically the same thing as you and find it impossible to cover larger distances in reasonable game play time. I will only use TC when on surface and with no threats present. So I find in heavy plane traffic areas it takes forever (real time) bobbing above and below continually. However I will continue to use this method only now with Rockin Robbins refinements which are superior to my own sloppy way. Now any suggestions on getting somewhere without spending hours of real-time traveling between objectives?

05-02-10, 08:48 AM	#24
BillBam Watch Officer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Yuba/Sutter, CA Posts: 347 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Assuming you have radar you can easily travel longer distances or between patrol areas at up to 2K TC and still have plenty of time to dive to 100' to avoid the planes that come into your cone area. I patrol during the day on the surface at 128 to 256 and at night up to 512 and never have a problem with planes.