Whats your take on this?

[Torpex752]

No doubt some may dismiss this as some sort of conspiracy mumbo-jumbo, however I find the evidence very interesting. Kinda hard to dispute science- Frank


Apr 23, 2009

640 Architects and Engineers Call for New 9/11 Investigation

Evidence of Explosives Found in Destruction of All 3 WTC High-Rises

AE911Truth to Display Evidence at National AIA Convention 4/30 — 5/2, Moscone Center
Press Conference/Speaking Engagement Saturday May 2 at 4 pm, Westin Market Street Hotel

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact Phone: 510-292-4710
Site: AE911Truth.org
Email: Contact rg-aia at ae911truth.org
Berkeley, CA, April 23, 2009 — More than 640 Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (AE911Truth) are calling for a new, independent investigation into the destruction of the World Trade Center high-rises. These building professionals cite evidence of explosive demolition at all three WTC high-rises on 9/11 and document the evidence at their website. Michael Heimbach, assistant director of the FBI's counterterrorism division, wrote that their claims and conclusion were "backed by thorough research and analysis."
AE911Truth will host exhibitor's information booth #2609 at this year's annual convention of the prestigious American Institute of Architects (AIA). The convention, with more than 800 exhibitors and more than 20,000 participating architects, will take place in San Francisco's Moscone Center, April 30-May 2.
read more...
Apr 22, 2009

Scientists Find Unignited Explosive Residues in WTC Dust

— Gregg Roberts

Red/Gray Chips Match Advanced Thermitic Materials Developed in US Government Labs

Berkeley, CA, April 23, 2009— A team of scientists that includes 9/11 luminaries Steven Jones, Kevin Ryan, and seven other authors from three countries announced this month the long-awaited publication of their 25-page article "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe."

The team analyzed dust samples that were collected from four locations near Ground Zero. One sample was collected ten minutes after the North Tower exploded, so it could not have been contaminated with particles from the cleanup efforts. All four samples contained the same unusual, tiny red/gray chips, which turned out to consist not only of the ingredients of conventional thermite but also carbon, silicon, and other elements.

The ingredients are all found in an ultra-fine-grained form that speeds the chemical reaction when the mixture is ignited. While conventional thermite is considered an incendiary, burning hot and fast at steel-melting 4500-degree temperatures, so-called "nano-thermite" or "super-thermite" mixtures can be explosive —
read more...

[SteamWake]

Truth.org..

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Interesting read

[SteamWake]

I dident see in their where the levels or concentration was mentioned.

Also wasent there a previous bombing attempt? Pretty sure there was. Possible residual traces? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Wo...Center_bombing

Here is an interesting fact. Seawater has the same amount of trace elements in it no matter where the sample is taken. Be it the north pole or the south atlatic. These traces include nearly every base element and mineral found on earth. So without a good reference point it could be said that the seawater taken from Antartica came from Bermuda.

I read a news story last week about traces of cocaine and LSD found in the atmosphere in spain.

My point is if you look hard enough you can find a trace of just about anything, anywhere.

Had one more thought.

Now I dont know where the building materials for the WTC came from but that region was heavily contested in the 1700's many many battles were fought there with muskets, cannons and the likes. Could it be possible that the trace remains of all that black powder made it into the building materials?

[Torpex752]

Thats a thought I could see.

My problem is that the stuff they found matches the steel erosion that the 911 comission called unexplaned. Nanothermite is only used in construction demolition as it is man made. I find it very sad to find this actually, not overjoyed.

Combine that with the nearly free fall speed of all buildings and it lends merit to the probability that the planes & fire didnt bring the buildings down. Its not impossible, but I find it a little hard to believe that these engineers are completely wrong.

I dont support the govt did it theory, however I am curious why when I look at other catostrophic events involving steel structures failing, submarines not returning to the surface, ships hitting iceburgs, or airplanes crashing, the level of investigation and reconstruction to find out why was and remains much more intense and thorough then this event/situation.

I guess I feel it necessary to say that after serving in the US Submarine force for 20 years and having a "questioning attitude" instilled in me as a critical means of survival and proper way of conducting daily business, after looking at this event from both sides, I have a few unanswered questions. The questions I have are not rocket science, yet there is no sensible answer found to date in any "official" report. None that satifies my understandings.

Frank

[CaptainHaplo]

Carbon - naturally occuring element
Silicon - naturally occuring element

etc etc.

Now I am not saying don't ask questions, but sometimes people look too deeply for the answer when its laying in front of them.

Ever hear of a shistovite (sp)? Its a grain shaped material that is shock heated quartz. Usually only found in nuke craters.

The point here is you had high temps, massive pressures, loads of a large variety of "ingredient" materials (concrete, steel, fiberglass,etc other metals and suchvarious ). Chemistry and physics often go hand in hand, so it is NOT suprising that under the circumstances there could be "trace" concoctions created. Diamonds are superheated and compressed coal - its not unreasonable to assume that the vast pressures and temps involved in building collapses such as this would cause all kinds of "unexplained" reactions. After all - when building are brought down normally - everyone expects that there could be "traces" of explosive elements found. But who is to say all the various things used to build buildings dont contribute to those elements?

I can personally think of a number of "potentially explosive" elements used in building. The key here is that they are elements of a potential explosive - not an explosive waiting to go off. In their molecular form, with the right combinations - BOOM. Our understand of the molecular processes that occur when something that size comes down is so incomplete its not even funny.

The website you pointed to has repeatedly claimed that the US Government was responsible for 9/11. Instead of looking into other possibilities, they find "elements" and traces of things that support their view (at first glance) and then run with it. Thats not science, thats a political agenda.

I am not knocking asking questions, but I have issues with those (not you OP) that pick and choose the facts they present to the public to create a sentiment for political purposes.

BTW - who had the "forethought" to take a SOIL sample 10 MINUTES after the North Tower went down? What human would say "Oh god - there musta been 2000 people in there - I better take a soil sample instead of going and trying to help out!"? That right there shows that they are NOT being entirely forthright.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Originally Posted by Torpex752

The ingredients are all found in an ultra-fine-grained form that speeds the chemical reaction when the mixture is ignited. While conventional thermite is considered an incendiary, burning hot and fast at steel-melting 4500-degree temperatures, so-called "nano-thermite" or "super-thermite" mixtures can be explosive —
read more...

Picture of lead investigator found here:

http://learnabit.homeserver.com/lab/tinfoil-hat.jpg

He's safe after the collapse. Plenty of aluminum wrapped around his head. He's A-o.k, don't worry. He survived - - - no one was hurt while he investigated this informative story. Should be in the National Enquirer next week as the main cover page story.

[Aramike]

I personally think these conspiracy theorists are nuts. Isn't part of any investigation "motive"?

If someone wanted to blow up the WTC, and was able to strategically place explosives in areas that would achieve this effect, why the hell bother to fly planes into the buildings?

In any case, here's a great site that goes in depth at the flaws in the "science" of these wackos: http://www.debunking911.com/

Here's my favorite part, lifted from this page: http://www.debunking911.com/massivect.htm

The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history...

[Aramike]

Here's another good piece: http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html

[Highbury]

Originally Posted by Aramike

If someone wanted to blow up the WTC, and was able to strategically place explosives in areas that would achieve this effect, why the hell bother to fly planes into the buildings?

Hard statement to argue, but maybe because they wanted a bigger "show". The conspiracy theorists always point to the document "Project for the New American Century" which was written by several people in the Bush administration. It contained the passage: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor" (sources 1 2) which conspiracy theorists claim is the seed of a self inflicted attack to empower the Government to make the changes they desired...

I am on NEITHER side. I see some merit in what some of the conspiracy theorists say. They do have too many fruitcakes on their side which hurts credibility badly. But at the same time there are some things that simply can't be explained to me.

I have watched all of the video. Yes they do 100% look like controlled detonations. None more so then WTC7. But even the towers, you certainly see what looks like detonations etc. This then begs the question, even with the state of technology in 2001, did they really think such a huge, televised event would not be scrutinized? That in itself makes it seem absurd.. but damaged buildings simply don't fall that way..

All I can say is I have no idea what really happened. I suspect very few really do. Certainly nobody posting on the internet about is has all of the answers and is just guessing, or at worst making crap up to support what they truly believe. That goes for people on both sides.

[RickC Sniper]

You have done alot of research Frank, and sure there are a lot of experts who disagree with each other.

The most troubling thing to me is how both of the Twin towers collapsed in the same way, just a short time apart. One plane, hitting a tower, everything happening just perfectly so it brings the tower down. Ok, I see how that might happen....once.
But both towers got hit by planes and both collapsed in the same timely manner. Very lucky for the terrorists? Possible, and my conscience accepts this because the alternative is too unsettling.

I don't believe in the conspiracy theories but the sad fact is we will never know more than we know now......so we must all believe what\who we choose to.

Aramike you make a great point.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by RickC Sniper

You have done alot of research Frank, and sure there are a lot of experts who disagree with each other.

The most troubling thing to me is how both of the Twin towers collapsed in the same way, just a short time apart. One plane, hitting a tower, everything happening just perfectly so it brings the tower down. Ok, I see how that might happen....once.
But both towers got hit by planes and both collapsed in the same timely manner. Very lucky for the terrorists? Possible, and my conscience accepts this because the alternative is too unsettling.

I don't believe in the conspiracy theories but the sad fact is we will never know more than we know now......so we must all believe what\who we choose to.

Aramike you make a great point.

Thanks ... but you should put your mind at ease. Two massive buildings, each hit by airplanes, each of the same design, are likely to see the same result - especially considering that the collapse of the first building is likely to cause additional foundation damage to the other.

[Torpex752]

Hey Aramike & Monica, I assure you I am not motivated by conspiracies....I can look at things critically with my own 2 eyes, that’s why I say look at what is said, not who.

I do find it sad that they get called nuts, wackos, idiots, conspiracy theorists, and a host of other names by the people we are "respecting to give us the truth". I find that strange. I mean, it really strikes me as odd to call someone with a different angle, or idea a wacko. But then again the men who said we could put a man on the moon were called wackos by quite a few......years later..........The Eagle has landed. So name calling serves no useful purpose.

All I suggest it to be open minded to the possibility that there were other elements at work. I know if I built those towers I'd be fired up if someone told me that they fell from the very thing I designed them to withstand. I'd be all sorts of pi$$in mad. I know how it is when I do maintenance to something mechanical, and it fails and someone says its because I didn’t do the maintenance. And don’t forget 3 towers fell that day...the 3rd a 47 story that was never hit by a plane.

Foundation damage, seems unlikely since they fell from the top down..of if you agree they did fall from the bottom up, then what foundation fails on a perfect perimeter to allow the building to fall in its own footprint. If it fell over, that would fit that theory. In any event 3 perfect foundation failures in one day..

Aramike, you mention motive. But Yet I cant give a motive without getting branded a conspiracy theorist. If I give a couple possible options, other then the ones mentioned in the past years will I get branded a conspiracy theorist? So if I do refrain from making any guestimations because of threats of name calling, who benefits? In any event, if you look at the 3 elements of a crime, means, motive and opportunity, that’s how you look at a crime scene regardless of who the criminals are.

My beef is that anyone who disagrees with the official story is branded a nut, a wacko simply because they believe in something other then the advertised story. So if we close the door and say that the planes were the cause, how have other current high rise sky scrapers been corrected to prevent this? Absolutely nothing has changed. In other words, follow the official story like a different type of disaster or problem. Auto recalls, jet liner malfunctions, bridges collapsing, trains colliding. they get analyzed down to the absolute root cause leaving not one bolt, poprivit, or weld left unexamined. And thats usually for 2-300 deaths. Not one weld, bolt, or pin was examined or analyzed. And then the steel that the NIST team did look at that was showing signs of erosion (melting by an external source) they called unexplained. Yet they state that the fire caused the steel to fail.

I listened to the audio files that recorded the explosions before the towers fell. The video of a car shredded before the towers fell. There are some strange things that were never explained, and I honestly believe that they deserved to be explained .
Listen to the firefighters;



I can tell you my motive is that I know steel..not in the scientific sense, but in the practical application sense. I am not supporting the theorists; however I am supporting the factualists. the guys who build the tallest buildings out of steel, a substance that is tough, durable and very resistant to shock. They guys who say those towers shouldn’t have fallen from plane hits and fires have a leg to stand on, have some good practical information and facts, yet are called kooks. Sad day in America.

Lets play devils advocate...since this group of Engineers has only one other idea, the govt doesn’t have to spend loads of time disproving a dozen other theories, there’s only one other possible scenario being proposed (and its not aliens LOL), why not allow it to be openly discussed? Give it its day in court/hearing/whatever. If these guys are nuts, they ruin their jobs and all the 9/11 truth .orgs fizzle away. We do still live in a free and open society? I hope.

I also hope no one gets emotionally twisted thinking that because I posted this stuff that there is any shred of belief in me that those who perished that day deserve any less reverence then they have. I was active duty that day, and their loss brought a stream of revenge out in everyone I was with that day. Nor would any discovery of anything change how we feel about them, the victims.

Frank

[Monica Lewinsky]

Originally Posted by Torpex752

Hey Aramike & Monica, I assure you I am not motivated by conspiracies....I can look at things critically with my own 2 eyes, that’s why I say look at what is said, not who.

I think you are in need of oxygen - vast amounts. Get some soon.

Live long, prosper, propagate, and forget that the Nation Enquirer is a source of news.

ps:
Wrap your head in aluminum foil [twice - just in case].

The Aliens will leave you alone [only if you wear aluminum foil around your head] to go about doing "your thing".

What's your read on John F. Kennedy? 3 bullets or 6?

jeez ... wacky torpedoes are being launched.