Stimulus Payment Info

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

You seem to have left out the billions it costs a typical state for illegals. It is a major strain on our economy because of it. Its not the 10's, but goes into the 100's of billions per year. Colorado is probably the average state with an expenditure of about $3 Billion. A state like California probably covers that in medical alone (they all use the emergency room for a simple cold, and the rest of us have to foot that bill), not including welfare.

The point being, it has a major contribution to our current economic problems.

-S

I seem to have mistated my point, sorry. Whaty I was implying is that illegal immigrants are not the cause of those ruinous (and imo, slightly exaggerated) costs any more than smoke is the cause of fire.

You're quite correct in saying that the staggering costs of the welfare state are exacerbated by illegal immigants. All I'm saying is that our animosity is misplaced when directed at them. If we didn't have ruinous welfare-state policies, it would matter very little how many illegal immigrants we had, and they would be less inclined to come here in the first place.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Buy a Subsim calendar, that money goes to me!! :rotfl:

I promise to buy a steak with it, a Texas steak, not Chinese.

Whoo Hoo! now that was a damn good reply.

[Onkel Neal]

Hey, I'm glad someone took notice of it

Donut took care of it, he's the Man.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Oh my goodness. Where do I even begin? I guess I'll start by saying that it's a good thing that some semblance of constitutional law remains or people with those kinds of opinions would send this country to hell in a handbasket in no time.

Firstly, illegal immigrants, while problematic in their own way, are certainly not the source of the nation's economic woes, nor even a significant factor. The reason that illegal immigrants are permitted into this country and allowed social benefits is quite simple; votes. Whether they become citizens or not is irrelevant, their children will become citizens, after all. And if you're a Democrat, what's your number one demographic? The poor, no?
Don't take my word for it, look at what California's primarily Democratic government (in this half-century) has done to it with lenient policies towards illegal (non-taxpaying) immigrants. The state is broke. Ruined. Destroyed. As a state, California is the most expensive place to live in the union, with the exception of Hawaii, for real land value reasons. The wealth gap in California is greater than in any other state, despite years of welfare society.
As far as the market is concerned, one can hardly blame it for taking advantage of workers who are willing to work for less than minimum wage, "under the radar" so to speak. The government provided cheap, exploitable labor, and the market took advantage of it, like they always have and always will. That's how the market works, which brings me to the second point.

There is nothing that can be done to change this in the sense that you are considering. The whole reason that labor is being exported in this country is because it is cheaper elsewhere. How, exactly, are you going to change that? Go ahead, impose tariffs or restrict exportation of labor. See what happens, if you haven't been paying attention to the last 3 1/2 decades of economic policy.
All you will end up doing is making the American economy less competitive. This country, and its' high standard of living, is no longer suited to an industrial economy. Products made in the U.S. are unacceptably expensive in the rest of the world, period. There is little reason to buy them, even for Americans.

But, that doesn't matter. The U.S. may be beyond the industrialization phase, but it is more than capable of handling a corporate economy. It doesn't matter where goods are produced as long as the revenue comes here. Our goal should be to become a beacon of capitalism brighter than any other in the world. Who cares if the U.S. fails to produce a single unit of anything if we own everything?

Finally, I'll point out that you have to let the market work. Resisting it is sheer idiocy. American labor is expensive, period. We simply cannot produce general goods at competitive prices. Our best hope is to abolish corporate taxes and minimize government interference to the point where every company on earth wants to be based here.

Instead of trying to control the market, or keep crappy jobs here, let the market do its' work and stay out of the way. This is the richest country in the world because of economic freedom and natural wealth. Just let it be. If you let the market work, the U.S. will probably always come out on top because so many other nations restrict economic freedom. If you try to control economic policy, you're goin to make another Russia. A huge nation, that, while powerful, is a shadow of what it could be.

Lassiez-Faire

That is the way Europe also has been heading, i just dont see everyone getting work in the service sector only. And those are really crappy jobs compared to really doing something.

[GoldenRivet]

screw it!

subman is right on!

im going to have a few cold ones, have a busty dame sit on my face and get a big ass American tattoo (not all at once though)

[SteamWake]

Not to fan the flames or anything but... just.... sigh.....

Acorn eligible for 'bail out' money.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/firs...mulus-dollars/

[stuntcow]

I like the steak idea. A cold drink and a hot grilled steak go good together.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by stuntcow

I like the steak idea. A cold drink and a hot grilled steak go good together.

I thought cows (even stuntcows) wanted us to Eat mor chikin'

Now I'm really confused.

On the serious side, this whole "economic stimulus" plan is starting to smell almost as bad as the financial bailout (which doesn't seem to have done much except convert GM into a bank).