More religious violence: India

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Your religion by the way leads to greater violence - wars. Germany WWII. The religion of land grab. Atheists usually degrade into religions of self satisfaction. A much more dangerous religion than any in the world.

I'll take Christianity any day! Much much safer.

-S

See my post above.

Hitler was not an Atheist. That's a myth that the Christians started, just like the idea that he was an Evolutionist. They're just trying to disown him and everything he did.

And Christianity is one of the worst religions out there. I mean: NINE CRUSADES? THREE INQUISITIONS? Add these twelve things together, and over a million people died. That's not including all the attacks done on Protestants by the French, Germans, or Italians, either, let alone the large number of witchcraft trials held the world over.

Look at this case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbain_Grandier

What a ludicrous religion Christianity is!

Here's something funny and true at the same time:

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

What a ludicrous religion Christianity is!

More correctly put, how ludicrous some people who profess to be Christians are. Christianity, in and of itself, has never killed anyone. Only intolerant human beings have killed in the name of Christianity.

@Skybird Thanks for that summary of India's religions

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

My - what...?

Strange to be accused at times of being areligious - and then being accused to have a religion. But strange only if one assumes reasonable thinking behind these accusations. Atheism is not a religion, and I am certainly not calling myself a religious person, but at best a spiritual one. And both terms are as different as is "on" and "off".

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Hitler was not an Atheist. That's a myth that the Christians started, just like the idea that he was an Evolutionist. They're just trying to disown him and everything he did.

And Christianity is one of the worst religions out there. I mean: NINE CRUSADES? THREE INQUISITIONS? Add these twelve things together, and over a million people died. That's not including all the attacks done on Protestants by the French, Germans, or Italians, either, let alone the large number of witchcraft trials held the world over.

Must we really dive AGAIN into the absolutely unique history of military conquest and submission that Islam is - the longest and most successful military conquest history knows, and to which the crusades origianlly were a defensive reaction to regain what had been taken in a wave of agression by islam?

I am really getting angry about this arguemt about crusades and how badly they beaten up their enemies. They took place before and during times when Spain, central France, parts of Italy, Greece and Balkans were militarily occupoied by Muslim armies, Europe was at serious thread to fall victim to Islam completely, and Muslim armies had won all of orthodox-Christian (!) north Africa by war or intimidation, and were busy with trying to destroy Indian culture and make it a compeltely Muhammedan country. If there would have been no Islam attacking Christian territories, there would have been other political wars - but no need for crusades.

So if telling the story of the crusades, tell both sides of the medal. they later degenrated into selfish affairs, but in the beginning they were truly defensive efforts against a marching aggressor.

Regarding the inquisition - Christian church now is beyond these. In Islam, a thinking similiar to the inquisition is declared valid and essential part of Islam until today, and prctices the same draconic, inhumane and barvbaric system of penalties to defend the dogma from abandoning, alrteration, and reform. A prominant share of Britsh Muslims want Britain to become a place where this is practiced, a prominent share of young Muslims in Britain said they accept violence to be used in acchieveing this goal, and we talk in quarters and thirds of the Muslim population here and growing numbers anyway, and in quite some countries in the world these rules already and still are practiced. A thinking similiar to that of the inquisition is active until today, and since 1400 years is far, far more successful than the Roman-Catholic church ever was in supressing reformist or alternative thinking, and defending dogmas dating back by over a thousand years that reflect the educational horizon of those ancient, old times of the medieval. The lead Arabia had over europe in the early medieval, was neutralised and turned into a handicap due to this successful brutal supression of reform and progress - the church may have hoped to be so successful, but it as not, as we know today. Arabia, not the West, should have been the centre of trade, science and commerce today, arabia should have become the place of hightech invention, silicon valeys and Nobel prize winners, but then came muhammad and his heritage strangled every promise of cultural develeopement and frooze it in total stasis for the next one and a half millenia to come. And if arabia would not have oil, nobody would give sh!t for it today, and it would be a loser and complete nobody today.

And the basic Islamic civil war rages until today, since over a thousand years. Not even the european kingdoms battled each other so constantly and enduring. I you want a count of violence and number of wars, SH, both in wars against other cultures and in ars against factions of it'S own religion Islam scores BEFORE the Christian cultural sphere. To according counts I have referred repeatedly over the past three or four years. Must we really repeat these endless fights from back then again and again and again, and then again?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Hitler was not an Atheist....

Yes he was. He did use Christianity and relics to try and turn the believers towards his cause though.

Man, even the Atheist Discovery channel mentioned this! I thought all your atheists were on the same page? Of course, even your biggest members of the movement have written a book that claims there is still a 1 in 6 chance god exists. Seems one way (the Christian way, you get a 100% chance you are dead wrong if you don't believe, and the other, you get 17% chance of being wrong still. Seems that the odds are in the favor of god even from your own kind!

-S

[Raptor1]

I smell overly long posts with a dozen seperate quotes in them dissecting other equally long posts coming

[Konovalov]

My point of this thread was to voice my despair at the occassional stupidity of all humanity as evidenced in my comment below.

Originally Posted by Konovalov

We really can be cruel to each other over the most stupid of things.

I didn't post here to apportion blame to any one religion, non-religion, or race. Please lets not turn this into a "which religion/non-religion has killed more people" kind of thing. Pretty please?

Originally Posted by Konovalov

My point of this thread was to voice my despair at the occassional stupidity of all humanity as evidenced in my comment below.

I didn't post here to apportion blame to any one religion, non-religion, or race. Please lets not turn this into a "which religion/non-religion has killed more people" kind of thing. Pretty please?

Point is: Humanity Sucks we need an alien race to enslave us for awhile. :p

[Hitman]

Name one war started by atheists?

All wars have been started and continued for reasons that have little to do with religion. Power, money, whatever you want. Religion just served as an excuse, and if the religion was already violent and aggressive, the better for the promotors of the war.

[Skybird]

Nothing better than having piety on your side when ripping human bodies into pieces.

"Gott will es!"

"Für Gott und Vaterland!"

"Gott mit uns!"

Is there one language in which these phrases have not been yelled from generals, kings, politicians, soldiers' throats?

At least atheists are more honest than the rest of the bunch. They do not claim a deity is accusing and forgiving them the committing of the bloodbath they are about to unleash eventually.

Remember the good ol' days when we were bringing Roman civilization to stinking gauls! :p

[Frame57]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Nothing better than having piety on your side when ripping human bodies into pieces.

"Gott will es!"

"Für Gott und Vaterland!"

"Gott mit uns!"

Is there one language in which these phrases have not been yelled from generals, kings, politicians, soldiers' throats?

At least atheists are more honest than the rest of the bunch. They do not claim a deity is accusing and forgiving them the committing of the bloodbath they are about to unleash eventually.

Klingon

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Hitman

All wars have been started and continued for reasons that have little to do with religion. Power, money, whatever you want. Religion just served as an excuse, and if the religion was already violent and aggressive, the better for the promotors of the war.

Well said. Religion has been abused again and again and again and again and again and again and again all to the end of time.

What happens in India is very saddening indeed. I wonder why the politician and the police are not doing anything to protect the victims and the minority. And why the hell the whole world has turned their back on Ossetia.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Castout

What happens in India is very saddening indeed. I wonder why the politician and the police are not doing anything to protect the victims and the minority. And why the hell the whole world has turned their back on Ossetia.

Probably because no one has figured out a way to make money off of either.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

My point of this thread was to voice my despair at the occassional stupidity of all humanity as evidenced in my comment below.

I didn't post here to apportion blame to any one religion, non-religion, or race. Please lets not turn this into a "which religion/non-religion has killed more people" kind of thing. Pretty please?

Obviously not many people paid much attention to my earlier request with this thread and the pages three through to five are evidence of that. I cannot believe what has transpired in such a short period of time (24 hours).

In hindsight I should have framed the topic of discussion better. I would fully accept that as criticism of me. And possibly because of this failing on my part people on all sides have used this as a jumping off point to launch attacks on religion in general, Christians, Muslims and Islam, and Atheists. Did I miss any group? In the topic that I started, Islam and Muslims had absolutely nothing to do with the event and news article linked to. Nor was there any mention or reference to athesists. This just proves that a few people are willing to inject their own agenda into a thread come hell or high water.

But while I am quite prepared to accept some responsibilty for poorly framing the topic of discussion all members should excert some form of self control not to mention personal responsibility for what you write here.

So is there any chance of discussing the complex and tense state of affairs in India between Hindu nationalists and fellow citizens whose only difference is that they are Christian?

Edit: Just noticed the post from Neal above. Fully agree on the freedom of speech thing. In fact I agree with the whole post. Listen to the boss boys.

[Frame57]

I apologize to you. I was just interjecting some reply that came up about Hitler. Not sure how that came up really. Moot point anyway. But to answer your question. It would be no. Because some people here do not even want a remote context of religion even mentioned and will keep begging neal to ban such topics. To me anyones religion is a cultural thing, but has an impact on society and should be discussed if appropriate. It has bearing and hiding from such topics gains nothing. Am example of this, is the Jihad mindset. Or any other mindset that wages war with a religious overtone. This explains motivation to me and helps one understand how and why people do the things they do.