MDC Pulls out of Zimbabwe run-off "election"

[Von Tonner]

Originally Posted by STEED

I stand corrected.

So why has the world not gone in there to over throw this swine?

That is the million dollar question? It really puzzels me as to why the USA, after contesting the African continent because of its raw wealth against the Soviets during the Cold War period, is now quite content to stand back and let China run amok - and the Koreans as well.

[August]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

That is the million dollar question? It really puzzels me as to why the USA, after contesting the African continent because of its raw wealth against the Soviets during the Cold War period, is now quite content to stand back and let China run amok - and the Koreans as well.

Why do we have to do the worlds dirty work every time, only to then get spat on by the rest of the world for doing it?

Why can't South Africa and the rest of the African union fix the problem? Surely they possess the means to do so...

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

Very interesting article here on whether a USA President can order the assassination of a foreign individual. If I understand it correctly, he can.

http://www.newsaic.com/mwassassin.html

If he is cleverhe will never do it, because what he does not say, cannot be taped - cannot be used against him. "Do you think somebody in the WH said: let's set up some lies, invent some untrue claims, and get a reason to occupy Iraq"? Politics means to find out how you can work offside the rules and get that done without needing to claim responsibility. Seen that way, it is a creative art.

It is enough to let an unspoken intention invisibly tickle down the hierachy until it reaches a level of the system where somebody who will never be known decides to carry out the order that was never spoken out. Because we do not assassinate heads of foreign states and foreign states' major politicians. Not officially, I mean.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by August

Why can't South Africa and the rest of the African union fix the problem? Surely they possess the means to do so...

Thats the best laugh I had all day. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

That is the million dollar question? It really puzzels me as to why the USA, after contesting the African continent because of its raw wealth against the Soviets during the Cold War period, is now quite content to stand back and let China run amok - and the Koreans as well.

"as long as the stuff keeps coming, there is no need to invest ion an overthrow. We have never been shy to trade with brutal opressors as long as he sells us what we want. Preferrably to our conditions. Mugabe knows that, and so he knows he is safe from real action. Ever heared of blood diamonds? they get washed a bit, and the shine holds as long as no questions get asked. So, most do not ask.

[Takeda Shingen]

I really don't get involved in the political threads, but the remarks of the UN's Secretary General just struck me as typically non-committal, followed by a tag-line regarding collaboration in the strictly symbolic sense. What a useless organization.

[Von Tonner]

Originally Posted by Skybird

"as long as the stuff keeps coming, there is no need to invest ion an overthrow. We have never been shy to trade with brutal opressors as long as he sells us what we want. Preferrably to our conditions. Mugabe knows that, and so he knows he is safe from real action. Ever heared of blood diamonds? they get washed a bit, and the shine holds as long as no questions get asked. So, most do not ask.

To Skybird: I read an intersesting article recently about how China rapes for example the forests of Mozambique, brings the raw wood back to China, turns it into whatever, and sells it to the USA.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I really don't get involved in the political threads, but the remarks of the UN's Secretary General just struck me as typically non-committal, followed by a tag-line regarding collaboration in the strictly symbolic sense. What a useless organization.

A lot of people don't use the term 'useless' when referring to the UN because it contains the word 'use'.

Hopeless is a term more commonly used

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

I read an intersesting article recently about how China rapes for example the forests of Mozambique, brings the raw wood back to China, turns it into whatever, and sells it to the USA.

How do you mean rape? Do you find the harvesting, shipping back to China, then selling to the US wrong? Or do you just mean the conditions under which they obtain the initial product?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

I really don't get involved in the political threads, but the remarks of the UN's Secretary General just struck me as typically non-committal, followed by a tag-line regarding collaboration in the strictly symbolic sense. What a useless organization.

Are you serious or are you ironic? I tend to assume the first, but I am not sure.

@ von Tonner,

EU-nations buy chicken from African nations to prices they dictate, take the filets for themselves, send back the wings and legs to Africa and sell them at prices so that local farmers trying to sell their own chicken cannot compete with these dumping prices and face bancruptcy, which causes havoc on African agricultural economy. Many other goods are being traded in this way, too. The EU calls that economical developement. I call it assistance to mass murder and destabilizing of social and national structures, because that's what it is in the end.

Or look at american companies like Sonex, which together with Candian Barrick Gold has established a cartel in the region around Rwanda and Uganda and exports minerals and tropical woods at conditions dictated by America, and is suspected by many of acting in the name of the military complex of the US. Not to mention the political and military intrigues the Us over the past 50 years have been massively engaged in.

It is not only the chinese and the russians. The Europeans and Americans are at least as guilty, if not more -due to their longer time of messing up activity in this region.

I am a realist, and i do not believe in the good of man - I eventually believe in some good in some men only. therefor I see no hope for Africa, it will become the hellhole of this and the next century, at least in those places were it not already is.

A brutally open and insightful read is this book, which I consider to be one of the best of the author. But be warned, it is a good method to create depressions, since it if filled with mutilation, genocide, masskilling, war and utmost brutality - the daily routine in many parts of Africa.

http://www.amazon.de/Afrikanische-To...4259445&sr=8-7

[bookworm_020]

As I see it, the MDC didn't have much choice. The chances of a free and fair election were non existant, and even if they won, the armed forces would haven't accepted the result.

The only two thinks that will cause change in Zimbabwe, the crooks in charge leave as there is nothing left to take or control, or they all drop dead! A long shot for both methods.

[Skybird]

"Fear the old men - they have nothing left to lose."

[Ishmael]

Here's a Johnny Clegg song about Uncle Bob Mugabe, The Revolution Will Eat It's Children:

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Are you serious or are you ironic? I tend to assume the first, but I am not sure.

Being serious. I can see how it would be confusing. My sarcasm and ire tend to flow along similar lines as well. My bad.

[Ishmael]

I got this from my Scatterlings group. I signed the petition. You may want to look at this:

Subject: Save Zimbabwe from Mugabe


Dear friends, African leaders can still save Zimbabwe by holding an emergency summit to broker a legitimate government. Click below to join the call:





On Thursday, 27th June, Zimbabwe will hold a cruel sham of a vote for President. The opposition Movement for Democratic Change has just withdrawn from the run-off -- not in a concession of victory, but rather in recognition that Mugabe's campaign of violence and terror has erased any hope for a democratic election.

But against the odds, hope survives. Amidst growing international pressure, Mugabe's ZANU-PF party and the opposition have entered private talks. A unity government may be possible yet.

The United Nations Security Council unanimously held on Monday that free and fair elections are now impossible in Zimbabwe. The UN Secretary-General spoke out. But it is African leaders, most of all Thabo Mbeki, who hold the key. Even Mugabe cannot cling to power without their cooperation. Today, we're launching an emergency campaign, petitioning these leaders to call an immediate summit, isolate Mugabe, and broker a legitimate government for Zimbabwe. Our call will be published in big newspaper advertisements in South Africa, Tanzania, Angola, and Mozambique this week -- click here to see the ads and endorse their message:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_zimbabwe/4.php?cl=100578046

Zimbabwe's neighbours supply its electricity and goods, and control the borders. Many Southern African leaders are already calling for the postponement of the election -- but there's a real danger that they will end up accepting this charade. This would be a grave miscalculation: if Mugabe succeeds in his de facto coup, Zimbabwe's implosion will accelerate, and chaos could spread throughout the region.

So our campaign will publicly name those African leaders who hold Mugabe's last remaining lifeline. If these leaders step up strongly now, they can convince enough of Mugabe's officials that change is coming one way or another -- and set the stage for Morgan Tsvangirai to lead a unity government to pull Zimbabwe back together.

Robert Mugabe saved Zimbabwe from colonialism. Now it's time for African leaders to save Zimbabwe from him.

Help us raise 250,000 voices this week, including a great roar from every country in Africa, to be delivered in an immediate multi-country ad campaign. Click to see the ads, sign, and then forward this to friends:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_zimbabwe/4.php?cl=100578046

With hope and determination,

Ben, Alice, Paul, Graziela, Mark, Ricken, Iain, Veronique, Pascal, and Milena -- the Avaaz.org team

PS: For more information and sources for the facts above, see:

Thabo Mbeki and the emergency talks for a settlement:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article4200177.ece

United Nations Security Council declares free and fair elections "impossible":
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2026827820080624

Elections going ahead despite MDC pull-out:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7468849.stm

Mugabe: "Only God will remove me!"
http://www.thetimes.co.za/SpecialReports/Zimbabwe/Article.aspx?id=788598

Regional leaders criticizing Mugabe:
Tanzania's Kikwete - http://allafrica.com/stories/200806200336.html
Rwanda's Kagame - http://allafrica.com/stories/200806190003.html
Kenya's Odinga - http://allafrica.com/stories/200806190949.html
Uganada's Museveni - http://allafrica.com/stories/200806120016.html

_______


ABOUT AVAAZ
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