Clinton: "We Just Have to Slow Down Our Economy" to Fight Global Warming

[silentrunner]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Penelope...............the USSR was parking nukes 80 miles off the US coast in Cuba.....ummmm the paranoia was real.


Not to mention the three Soviet subs headed to the east coast with nuke torps aboard. All were found and made to surface.

Seriously Penelope do you know how many communist spies were caught during the Cold War, and even now like:
Alger Hiss
Aldrich Ames
Julius Rosenburg
Robert Hanssen
and the list goes much further on.

[Skybird]

Let's keep it in relation.

The USSR did it's part to sometimes counter American first efforts, sometimes moving ahead and triggering America to counter Soviet first efforts (remember, the cold war was carried out by TWO opponents, and regarding nuclear technology many firsts in weapons were developed and fielded by america first, not russia, which often more or less reacted to SSBNs, ICBMs, MIRVs, Kennedy's monumental nuclear arms program).

Penelope probably did not refer to such an obvious crisis like Cuba, but to the fact that many Americans almost go hysteric when Communism is mentioned. Heck, america already goes crazy when some body is mentioning "social" (not to mention "socialism", which is even something different). This antipathic hype concerning the class enemy of capitalism, communism that is, gave us not only worries about nukes on Cuba - but McCarthy's witch hunt as well. And today's massive undermining of basic rights in the name of security and countering terror, shares quite some similiarities to MyCarthy's paranoia in the meaning of going beyond what is reasonable and helptful, and demanding total control for the purpose of itself - not just for countering communist traitors, or terrorists.

And this forum itself has seen a lot of fury about terms like communism and socialism as well, so... leave it in perspective, guys.

and silentrunner, AVGwarhawk, , do you really thinkm the US navy did not conduct subamrine exercises offshore of Russia, and carried out other acts regarding Russia that you would not be shy to list here if it would have been the russian doing it with regard to America? the cold war was a game of mutual cold agressions. It was not just russia violating america's security interests, and it was not that America never responded on equal terms. In fact, many first steps were beeing taken by america, not Russia. Stop being blind on one eye. Regarding the NATO expansion right up to russian borders of today, opposite to the deals and promises that were given to them before and that the Russian trusted into (a betrayal by NATO for which they see themselves paying a high price now, and thus they are so angry at NATO), and regarding the planned missile sites in Poland and the Czech Republik, america is continuing the cold war game right until today - and then is lamenting over the logical and angry reactions and chnages in Russian policies. When you feel tempted to ventilate about how Putin could dare to do like he does, and to confront the West and give no more cheap presents, do not forget that this is in direct reaction to NATO's behavior of the past 15 years, and the broken promises in these years. Putin once was totally commited to the idea to bring Russia closer to europe, he is a great admirer of Alexander the Great and wanted to continue where alexander had to stop. It's just that the West showed him that such good will would be deliberately exploited for selfish Western interests. what is it wonder then if now he uses the same kind of behavior agaimst the West, not wanting to see his country getting exploited once again?

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Penelope...............the USSR was parking nukes 80 miles off the US coast in Cuba.....ummmm the paranoia was real.

Well...The US parked medium range ICBM's in Turkey first. all the Russians did was tit for tat.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Penelope probably did not refer to such an obvious crisis like Cuba, but to the fact that many Americans almost go hysteric when Communism is mentioned. Heck, america already goes crazy when some body is mentioning "social" (not to mention "socialism", which is even something different).

correct Skybird.

That was presisely what amused me. As for cuba, from what I've read America was just as responsible for that as Russia was.

Originally Posted by subman1

5. Even the UK is heading far away from capitalism, and is very much a Socialist country now and is on the Communist back porch from a political perspective.

No no no. The UK is far from a socialist country. Ask any Pensioner you like they will soon tell you how un-socialist the place is.

[AVGWarhawk]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

Well...The US parked medium range ICBM's in Turkey first. all the Russians did was tit for tat.

Yes, but the point being there was every reason to be paranoid. It was real and Americans had every cause to be afraid and paranoid. Yes, we parked a few pointed at Russia and tit for tat, but the threat and paranoia in the USSR at the time was real as well. It was as close as America/USSR got to actually pressing the big red button.

[Penelope_Grey]

I still don't get why America felt the need to set up weapons, blatantly, right on Russia's borders... if that is not a direct display of intention I don't know what is.

Having said that, history will remember the cuban missile crisis 2 ways.

1) as America proving the stronger of the two getting the USSR to back down first. or....

2) as the USSR proving more sensible than American leadership and backing down first to prevent a nuclear catastrophe.

Either way, imagine if Krushchev refused to back down? Would Kennedy really have pressed the button and destroyed the world? Hmm... maybe its a good job Kennedy was assasinated in the long run.

Communism is something to be afraid of I can grant that, but in reality, communism will never work, the reason being, simple human nature. We are selfish creatures, why should I give over what is mine? Its a nice thought to think that the road sweeper and the brain surgeon are equal and of equal worth to society, but as long as people are always looking out for number 1... you get nowhere, that is why communism fails.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

No no no. The UK is far from a socialist country. Ask any Pensioner you like they will soon tell you how un-socialist the place is.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: So you are saying the pensioners got screwed? Funny! Tell that to Steed. It will set him off again!

-S

[STEED]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: So you are saying the pensioners got screwed? Funny! Tell that to Steed. It will set him off again!

-S

The good lady Penelope_Grey is correct, are stinking government looks at pensioners as lay abouts burdening the State and if they could get there way they would kill them all, which they are doing now. Age concern has stated 1 in 10 pensioners must decide to heat there home and go without food or eat and go without heating, I am bloody sick of those pigs at Westminster giving themselves massive pay rises for what? So they can shat over the rest of us.

[NEON DEON]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Unbelievable. Wrong message to be sending when people are worried about their jobs.

A real president would say "We need to create new companies and jobs in energy efficiency sectors to combat global warming". Not 'lets' slow down the economy. And people are voting for her? What idiots!

Umm.

Watch and listen to the video on ABC web site of Clinton's speach and tell him he didnt say what you just said a real president would say!:p

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/poli...83/detail.html

Oh how I love republican slants

GEESH

[Brag]

The Cold War was quite different than how it was portrayed in the mainstream media. Just like The War on Terror is now.

A good example is the Berlin Airlift. The so called Blockade was simply a ban on West German products. But US and allies made a big theater from it and turned it into a PR disaster for the Soviets.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by NEON DEON

Umm.

Watch and listen to the video on ABC web site of Clinton's speach and tell him he didnt say what you just said a real president would say!:p

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/poli...83/detail.html

Oh how I love republican slants

GEESH

Are you saying that your vid is edited? I'd call that Democratic slant! Seems you got your words mixed up now didn't you? :p

-S

[mrbeast]

Communism! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Subman its 2008 not 1958.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

Communism! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Subman its 2008 not 1958.

Uhh, communism is alive and well my dear friend.

If not, maybe you should tell these guys - http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/15/

:p

Open up your eyes a little. You seem to have you head buried in the sand.

-S

[Tchocky]

Communism is indeed alive.

The fear of a communist agenda eating away at American politics is a tad nostalgic, however, like mrbeast said it's more suited to the fifties than today.

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Uhh, communism is alive and well my dear friend.

If not, maybe you should tell these guys - http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/15/

:p

Open up your eyes a little. You seem to have you head buried in the sand.

-S

Subman I don't know what planet your living on ( planet rightwing fantasist maybe :hmm: ) but I think its you that should open your eyes and rub some of the sand out of them.

Moscow central and COMINTERN are long long gone. You posted a paranoid article about suposed communist intentions to conquer the US written in 1963! So you are taking your information from over 40 years ago. Do you not think its just a little out of date?

Certainly there are still communist parties around theres some over here in the UK too but how many members do you think they have? I'll tell you very few they are tiny fringe groups, Subman. Infact I'd put money on there being more ultra right wing party members in the US than far left.

I'd say that things everywhere were going the other way actually more towards capitalism than communism.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

Communism! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Subman its 2008 not 1958.

So you don't believe there are people out there that are still vying for the fantasy land utopia of Marx and Engel's? If you can't see they exist, you must be asleep. There are many names for it...communism is only one...