[WIP]RealNav Panel for GWX + OLC - Page 2

Nico71 · 01-18-08, 09:09 AM

Vanjast's sextant is calibrated for the NYGM cameras.dat. Perhaps this is the culprit! What I have seen in my own testing is a non-linear vertical distortion. As I have described above, I couldn't get the angle right so that it works on all latitudes. But then I didn't test the new cameras.dat, yet. However, by using the binocs to measure the elevation, I think we might be able to get better readings and in the range of 0.1° or so. At the moment it is still a little bit on the coarse side.

onelifecrisis · 01-18-08, 09:11 AM

A binocular elevation guage which works like the binocular bearing guage is, I'm pretty sure, not possible.

Something like Vanjast's sextant, with (as you said) the proper camera angle, seems to me like the way to go... but maybe someone else will be more helpful.

Sorry, I thought I had an idea but it turns out to be old news.

Nico71 · 01-18-08, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

A binocular elevation guage which works like the binocular bearing guage is, I'm pretty sure, not possible.

Something like Vanjast's sextant, with (as you said) the proper camera angle, seems to me like the way to go... but maybe someone else will be more helpful.

Sorry, I thought I had an idea but it turns out to be old news.

But what about the deck gun elevation scale that I have mentioned above?

onelifecrisis · 01-18-08, 09:18 AM

It's not an elevation, it's a range, and that camera doesn't even move vertically.

Nico71 · 01-18-08, 09:27 AM

@Mikhayl: Yes, this is exactly what I have in mind. And pretty much the same solution that Virtual Sailor uses, IIRC.

@OLC: Hey, one can dream a bit, eh?! What we have now, the somewhat, ummm....medieval linear scale by Vanjast is certainly good enough, and I'm sure that a guy like Frank Worsley could navigate with GPS-like precision with that thing. But then.....I'm not Worsley!

Nico71 · 01-18-08, 10:37 AM

It almost sounds as if that dreaded thing finally works! In the original thread, didn't someone mention that the sunset was at the wrong time? Did you check this out? I think they simply took their readings at sunrise and that's it! But if the sun position is correct all the time, we can do running sunline fixes and stuff like that!

http://www.dc3airways.com/TechEd/te_nav_lr_nav.html

While still somewhat simplified compared to the real thing, this mod really adds a lot of value to the game!

AVGWarhawk · 01-18-08, 10:44 AM

This work is absolutely beautiful!

Nico71 · 01-18-08, 11:21 AM

Both of you deserve the credits! When I had fiddled with the files myself, especially the cameras.dat issue, I quickly gave up on it because I thought that it is hopeless! But now you have proven me wrong! And I am so happy about it!

Oh, BTW, does it still apply that "sunrise" and "sunset" in game are when the sun is halfway above the horizon?

And what I still don't understand.....is the clock setting actually locked to the nearest meridian of the starting location all of the time (so it has to be figured out only once), or does it change when reaching the next "big" meridian?

Next job for you: SH4!

Nico71 · 01-18-08, 02:17 PM

If you can get accurate readings of other stars, navigation in the southern hemisphere should work as well. I truly believe that moon and stars are accurate as well. I had serious doubts regarding the simulation of the celestial system in SH, but now I am confident!

While you are on patrol, you may try out if running sunline fixes actually work now! I can't test it myself, yet. Too busy with modelling stuff.

Hilis Hatki · 01-21-08, 10:03 AM

Mikhayl:
"I think that's all for the moment, so far I have tested the mod with a GWX 2.0 + OLC 1.1.5 combination. It would probably work as well with OLC 1.1.4, I'm not sure, have to try it. But it sure won't work on any combination like "stock SH3 + OLC" or "NYGM/WAC/anything + OLC", BUT I have a 2nd SH3 install with these two supermods, so I guess if some of you guys are interested, I could make it compatible with not too much work."

YES PLEASE!!. Release for as many combinations as posible. Or a stock sh3 with directions on how to add it.

THANKS

Nico71 · 01-21-08, 11:41 AM

This problem is known for quite some time now! I doubt that there is anything you can do about it. Without the plotting tool, the helmsman cannot stay on course. In fact, he's doing permanent corrections when you have plotted a course, but not when under manual control. It becomes even worse in storm. I think this is the only real problem that cannot be solved for real nav (hardcoded). The half finished cel nav features of SH3 lead me to believe that realistic navigation was a planned feature, but it was dropped due to time constraints. Perhaps Dan can tell us something about it. I'd suggest that you release it "as is".

Nico71 · 01-21-08, 11:59 AM

The problem is as follows: When the player plots a course, the game engine uses the world coordinate system to determine the position of the waypoint, as opposed to the local coordinate system. That means, when you set a waypoint with the plotting tool, you tell the game to steer the boat to world coordinates xx°N XX°W or so. With local coordinates, you'd tell the game to steer 300° magnetic for 200 nm, then turn to 270° for another 100 miles or so. But changing plotting from world to local coordinate systems is certainly hardcoded and well beyond the scope of modding!

Nico71 · 01-21-08, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

But I'm totally new to this part of gaming, and since there's no "SH3 modding wikipedia" out there, almost everyone who wants to edit the game has to "re-invent the wheel" by himself, and this eventually leads to dead ends. But well it's still quite fun to see how you can totally screw the game only by changing 2 numbers in a 100ko file :hmm:

I feel your pain!

Just after the release of SH3, I was one of the many guys who had to do the fundamental research of modding the game. It was a lot of work with little progress. No fancy editors and stuff. Just notepad. Teams formed up and fell apart again, many modders burned out and lost all interest. We have come a long way since then, I tell ya! Even though I stopped modding SH3 after the X1 debacle, I still enjoy following the progress of mod development.

As for the wind, I think it is worth a closer look! It might be a good workaround.

onelifecrisis · 01-21-08, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

Skwas' editor

What's that?

onelifecrisis · 01-22-08, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

Skwas' editor

What's that?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=127349 ? :hmm:

Awesome!

I missed that being released. Thanks for the link

Sorry for going OT...

01-18-08, 09:11 AM	#17
onelifecrisis Maverick Modder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,895 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 3	A binocular elevation guage which works like the binocular bearing guage is, I'm pretty sure, not possible. Something like Vanjast's sextant, with (as you said) the proper camera angle, seems to me like the way to go... but maybe someone else will be more helpful. Sorry, I thought I had an idea but it turns out to be old news. __________________ Freedom of speech - priceless. For everything else there's Mastercard.

01-18-08, 09:18 AM	#19
onelifecrisis Maverick Modder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,895 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 3	It's not an elevation, it's a range, and that camera doesn't even move vertically. __________________ Freedom of speech - priceless. For everything else there's Mastercard.

01-18-08, 10:44 AM	#22
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,256 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	This work is absolutely beautiful! __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

01-21-08, 10:03 AM	#25
Hilis Hatki Bosun Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tennessee, Earth Posts: 62 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Mikhayl: "I think that's all for the moment, so far I have tested the mod with a GWX 2.0 + OLC 1.1.5 combination. It would probably work as well with OLC 1.1.4, I'm not sure, have to try it. But it sure won't work on any combination like "stock SH3 + OLC" or "NYGM/WAC/anything + OLC", BUT I have a 2nd SH3 install with these two supermods, so I guess if some of you guys are interested, I could make it compatible with not too much work." YES PLEASE!!. Release for as many combinations as posible. Or a stock sh3 with directions on how to add it. THANKS __________________

01-18-08, 09:09 AM	#16
Nico71 Medic Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 168 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	Vanjast's sextant is calibrated for the NYGM cameras.dat. Perhaps this is the culprit! What I have seen in my own testing is a non-linear vertical distortion. As I have described above, I couldn't get the angle right so that it works on all latitudes. But then I didn't test the new cameras.dat, yet. However, by using the binocs to measure the elevation, I think we might be able to get better readings and in the range of 0.1° or so. At the moment it is still a little bit on the coarse side.

01-18-08, 09:27 AM	#20
Nico71 Medic Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 168 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	@Mikhayl: Yes, this is exactly what I have in mind. And pretty much the same solution that Virtual Sailor uses, IIRC. @OLC: Hey, one can dream a bit, eh?! What we have now, the somewhat, ummm....medieval linear scale by Vanjast is certainly good enough, and I'm sure that a guy like Frank Worsley could navigate with GPS-like precision with that thing. But then.....I'm not Worsley!

01-18-08, 10:37 AM	#21
Nico71 Medic Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 168 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	It almost sounds as if that dreaded thing finally works! In the original thread, didn't someone mention that the sunset was at the wrong time? Did you check this out? I think they simply took their readings at sunrise and that's it! But if the sun position is correct all the time, we can do running sunline fixes and stuff like that! http://www.dc3airways.com/TechEd/te_nav_lr_nav.html While still somewhat simplified compared to the real thing, this mod really adds a lot of value to the game!

01-18-08, 11:21 AM	#23
Nico71 Medic Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 168 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	Both of you deserve the credits! When I had fiddled with the files myself, especially the cameras.dat issue, I quickly gave up on it because I thought that it is hopeless! But now you have proven me wrong! And I am so happy about it! Oh, BTW, does it still apply that "sunrise" and "sunset" in game are when the sun is halfway above the horizon? And what I still don't understand.....is the clock setting actually locked to the nearest meridian of the starting location all of the time (so it has to be figured out only once), or does it change when reaching the next "big" meridian? Next job for you: SH4!

01-18-08, 02:17 PM	#24
Nico71 Medic Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 168 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	If you can get accurate readings of other stars, navigation in the southern hemisphere should work as well. I truly believe that moon and stars are accurate as well. I had serious doubts regarding the simulation of the celestial system in SH, but now I am confident! While you are on patrol, you may try out if running sunline fixes actually work now! I can't test it myself, yet. Too busy with modelling stuff.

01-21-08, 11:41 AM	#26
Nico71 Medic Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 168 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	This problem is known for quite some time now! I doubt that there is anything you can do about it. Without the plotting tool, the helmsman cannot stay on course. In fact, he's doing permanent corrections when you have plotted a course, but not when under manual control. It becomes even worse in storm. I think this is the only real problem that cannot be solved for real nav (hardcoded). The half finished cel nav features of SH3 lead me to believe that realistic navigation was a planned feature, but it was dropped due to time constraints. Perhaps Dan can tell us something about it. I'd suggest that you release it "as is".

01-21-08, 11:59 AM	#27
Nico71 Medic Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 168 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	The problem is as follows: When the player plots a course, the game engine uses the world coordinate system to determine the position of the waypoint, as opposed to the local coordinate system. That means, when you set a waypoint with the plotting tool, you tell the game to steer the boat to world coordinates xx°N XX°W or so. With local coordinates, you'd tell the game to steer 300° magnetic for 200 nm, then turn to 270° for another 100 miles or so. But changing plotting from world to local coordinate systems is certainly hardcoded and well beyond the scope of modding!