Damage from Light Weapons in GWX

[danlisa]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Erich Topp]

I am not out of this forum. I am out of discussion. Or this forum board belongs to GWX team?)))

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by Erich Topp

No one can receive nothing from gods, sinless and lighted...rgr..

There is a damn good point.

Does anybody ever give the gods a sacrifice? No! All they do is pray and pray and pray and blame the gods when THEY screw up their own lives... I tell you what... I wish I was a mere mortal some days.

Because being a "god" is like being an agony aunt!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by Erich Topp

I believe K-74 didn't throw any bombs?

Hi!

That is correct: the depth charges failed to drop when commanded.

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/i...g/50_ammo.html

All about .50 cal. Below the page is table with AP capabilities.
As you see, on 1200 meters AP round from M2 can hit only 10mm of steel (note - under 90 degrees, which not possible in real action). On 1500 only 7 mm.
That's more modern ammo, that been used on ships. Not all of them were armed by expensive AP rounds. Pressure hull is round, and hitting it by normal trajectory (90 degrees) is impossible. Anybody knows what was the thickness of light hull? Ballast tanks?
In SH3 bullet is the same effective on 5000 meters and 300 meters. Maybe it's reasonable to make stats, based on 1500 meters bullet capability, not 100 meters? 'cause on shorter distance ship will hit u-boat more often, causing more damage. Also plane 20mm cannons are much shorter and weaker, than 20mm C30/C38 'cause of shorter barrel. Why planes aren't destructible, and pressure hull is? Mmm.. Plane fuselage is thicker?))

Aircraft guns have been damaging U-boats since stock Silent Hunter III: the problem is that the Silent Hunter III game engine precludes death and injury to your flak gunners without also giving those guns the ability to damage and penetrate the pressure hull, as well as shoot at and damage ships and other aircraft. On balance, we decided it was more important to keep the players' flak gunners in peril than to stop machine guns from damaging your hull.

If you can find a way to do have guns damage your gunners without damaging the hull we would very much like to hear about it!

And.. after all... You say: Captain should leave deck gun to make "gun system" work properly, because no captains fired deck gun manually. OK.

You are welcome to fire the deck gun in GWX any time you please; however, GWX models to some extent the effects of a U-boat pitching and rolling on the surface of the sea, so if you fire at the wrong moment your gun barrel may be trained correctly in azimuth, but wildly overshoot or undershoot your target unless you wait until your gun barrel is at the proper elevation. This factor also affects the accuracy of your antiaircraft fire.

You made non-defeatable planes by config. OK. Don't you think you simply cutted out 2 parts of game? Balance of "realism".

Actually, you can shoot down aircraft in GWX - it is just nowhere near as easy as it was in stock Silent Hunter III. It was made more difficult because IRL it was more difficult, and U-boats generally avoided fights with aircraft for this reason. Your best bet may be to practice using the flak tutorial mission until you can shoot down all the aircraft in the mission with some regularity before challenging aircraft in an actual game.

You can't shot down K-ship in GWX, but in real life K-74 were shot.

An airship is not as easy to shoot down as you might think. All U.S. airships used helium for buoyancy, so there was no possibility of a Hindenburg effect; also, it takes a while for enough helium to leak out of an airship for it to crash: for example, the Goodyear blimps get bullet holes in them all the time while flying over stadiums in the U.S. from idiots on the ground shooting at them, and none have been shot down. Airship K-74 was the only airship shot down by a U-boat during the entire war, and they can be shot down (I've done it in testing), so perhaps if you keep practicing you will be able to shoot one down, too.

Price of your "realism" is too high - it's a price of playability.

PS: Please don't tell me "play stock". It's not a fresh joke. And it is a bit of criticism. To say so, you should have "light" version of the mod, that deals only with units, campaign and game appearance, not balance. Otherwise...take "feedback" from users adequately.

________________

OK, we have your feedback. Noted.

I think the game is eminently playable and enjoyable as it is (I have had time to play one patrol under GWX V2.0, in which I sank 19 ships displacing over 91,000 tons in the fall of 1939) at 100% "realism" (as defined by the Silent Hunter III engine). I vote to not add a "lite" option.

I won't tell you to play stock, but I will suggest that you

• 1. Practice a lot at shooting down aircraft in the tutorial mission, because those are the easiest ones to shoot down. If you can't shoot them down, don't try to gun down a rocket-armed Mosquito approaching your boat on an attack run!
  
  2. Take a look at some on-line references, or check out some of the references discussed in the bibliography in the GWX Manual, and learn more about the tactics of R/L U-boat commanders. GWX is "tuned" to reward the use of real-life tactics (like stalking convoys and evading aircraft, rather than charging convoys and shooting it out with aircaft)

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

There is a damn good point.

Does anybody ever give the gods a sacrifice? No! All they do is pray and pray and pray and blame the gods when THEY screw up their own lives... I tell you what... I wish I was a mere mortal some days.

Because being a "god" is like being an agony aunt!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Rofl, well put. :rotfl:

Originally Posted by Erich Topp

Anyway, let's forget it. "No" means "no" in every language)) Thanks for answering)) I already learned all I wish to know.

Actually, 'No' means 'well' in finnish. :p

[Erich Topp]

If you can find a way to do have guns damage your gunners without damaging the hull we would very much like to hear about it!

I changed .zon files for subs on stock ones, and machineguns still killing my AA guns crew. I believe there is more to ammo hit radius, than to u-boat zones.

You are welcome to fire the deck gun in GWX any time you please

Yeah, and crash C2 on two parts, hitting the same place 5 times. Crazy... Lehmann said that "real artillery system works only for AI-crews". That's the point of "cutting out" artillery part at all, 'cause such things, as breaking ships by gun (more often than by torpedo) isn't suitable for MY realism knowledge.

This factor also affects the accuracy of your antiaircraft fire.

Accuracy should be affected. That's the point. Accuracy. No 20mm AP round force decreasion. Or uber-aircraft creation.

Actually, you can shoot down aircraft in GWX - it is just nowhere near as easy as it was in stock Silent Hunter III.

I scored 100 20mm hits in a hurricane. No effect. 100 20mm hits in u-boat causes death screen. Nice planes British had...

Your best bet may be to practice using the flak tutorial mission until you can shoot down all the aircraft in the mission with some regularity before challenging aircraft in an actual game.

I am playing SH3 for a two years. Don't worry, i know how to play and what to do. All I am speaking about is that fighters have the same armor and HP values, as small merchant. They can receive hits, blow (!), fire, but continue their flight.

so perhaps if you keep practicing you will be able to shoot one down, too.

Yeah-yeah. Practice for what? Scoring hits? I do. I don't see any effect. Hell to K-ships, let them fly. Why duraleum Hurricane is more resistant to MG fire, than steel thick uboat))

Take a look at some on-line references, or check out some of the references discussed in the bibliography in the GWX Manual, and learn more about the tactics of R/L U-boat commanders.

GWX is tuned for "improved realism as GWX team understand it". I already got this point. No need to repeat. Let's stop this, nobody from GWX team will help me, no one can help GWX team, as I see. Narcissism cannot be cured.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Actually, 'No' means 'well' in finnish. :p

And "no" means "yes" in Polish (everyday use in unofficial language). :rotfl:

[AOTD_MadMax]

OMG, whats going on here ?:hmm:

Now i know the reasons for war......................................

Cooooooool downnnnnnnnnnnnn.

In my eyes Topp is right when you only see the situation in reallife but SH3 is a game.
Where is the middle ?
Sometimes you have to make some small units and weapons stronger as they are in RL.
In this case lets have a look to the torpedoboats.
They cant fire Torpedos so they must have strong guns to be an hard opponent to the subs.
And dont forget, SH3 is an Game with an small window for modding without having acces to the hardcoded things.


@ Erich Topp

You right when you say its not realistic to hit an Hurricane with 100 20mm Bullits with no effort but thats not the thing.
First you have to hit a small fast plane from a sub.
I was in the german navy and to hit a small fast target from a plattform like an sub is not easy.
It is more luck then knowledge to shoot an plane from a boat which is going about 2 meters up and down in the see.

GWX-team do right to make the planes harder cause planes kill more subs as destroyer did and planes kill more subs then subs kill planes !

Greets

Maddy



Greets

Maddy

[AVGWarhawk]

Erich Topp:

PS: Please don't tell me "play stock". It's not a fresh joke. And it is a bit of criticism. To say so, you should have "light" version of the mod, that deals only with units, campaign and game appearance, not balance. Otherwise...take "feedback" from users adequately.

Erich,

GWX is not made to order. If it was, individual mods would be made for pink ships with bright blue flags, Jet Ski's in the harbors and a para-glider off the turtle back. GWX is a package in it's entiretly. The community can not ask that the team change this and that to each individuals liking. Many man (woman) hours have been put into it. Glaring issues and bugs addressed. Nothing more should be asked of the team. If a player does not care for one particular part, the player should add the chrome, 18 inch wheels and dual tailpipes of their liking. Nitrous is optional. With that said, asking them to create a "light version" will only generate more verisons of this and that. Sorry Erich, these guys and gal have a life also. They have dedicated much of the past two years on the mod. Can they punch out for a few months without having to create yet another mod? If shooting down aircraft is not to your liking, crash dive! Most did anyway as they knew how fragile the submarines are under fire. Perhaps this was the underlying idea of aircraft and staying surfaced to shoot them down. Submerging is your best bet.

[panzer 49th]

Originally Posted by privateer

I for one DO NOT give out MY tweak files.
Write your own.
Everyone else does.

:hmm: makes me wonder what your tweak files can acually do.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by panzer 49th

:hmm: makes me wonder what your tweak files can acually do.

You really don't want to know because your fridge magnets will de-magnitise and you hamster will mysteriously fall pregnant.

[Penelope_Grey]

Still on about the deck gun? You've sung that song title before Erich and the music is still just as bad. You are the only one who is complaining about the deck gun. There is nothing wrong with the Deck gun.

I scored 100 20mm hits in a hurricane. No effect.

LOL I suppose we'll have to take your word on that.

Why duraleum Hurricane is more resistant to MG fire, than steel thick uboat))

you have to hit them first. A Hurricane flies at speeds of over 300 knots. That is pretty fast you know. Faster than some modern planes now. But you claim you do hit them....

Also, those are armour piercing bullets being fired... penetration is the name of the game... U-Boat hulls were designed to withstand explosions and pressure forces, not gunfire. A hand held machine gun wouldn't harm it, but a mounted 20 mm with armour piercings? Whole new animal, and you would become swiss cheese.

GWX is tuned for "improved realism as GWX team understand it". I already got this point. No need to repeat. Let's stop this, nobody from GWX team will help me, no one can help GWX team, as I see. Narcissism cannot be cured.

Neither can arrogance be cured.

And you have that in abundance. As Ref stated earlier all your posts have been little more than complaints and whinging. I also saw in another thread you asked a question got an answer when you knew it all along.

Come on Topp, put your cards on the table, what is your probelm with GWX and the people behind it? Do you have some kind of vendetta an axe to grind what?

You arrive, first few posts in the GWX sticky telling us what all we got wrong, and asking some provocative questions. You got your answers, hell, I even went to work testing the deck gun for you. Yet every answer you got from us you just seemed intent to rubbish continually. No answer given satisfied you.

We are not obliged to do anything for you, or anybody else, we do it because we like to. User support is something most of us will do in a heart beat. But why should you be worthy of it when all you have done is just continually put us and the Grey Wolves mod down all the time?

Im not happy at being reffered to by you as a god or a narcisist. And frankly I don't think any of my other friends needs to be slighted by you, because of what you THINK to be right.

GWX will not be tailormade for you personally or anybody else... you will have to make do with "one size fits all" sorry. As you have been advised... if Grey Wolves is that repulsive to you, change it, add some additional mods... or.... remove it and use a different mod package. Or, move on to SH4 or whatever best suits you personally.

But no amount of complaining because you are not able to shoot down X amount of planes is going to change the way the planes are... they are modeled to realistic effect within the limitations of the SH3 game... you don't like it, well, sorry... not the fault of the Grey Wolves team.

Anybody can offer their criticism, I did once upon a time prior to joining. But being rude and insulting to the team or making wisecracks about GW is not cool, nor will it gain you any respect. A polite civil observation is the best. When you start saying things suck and calling us "gods" and other such tripe. Then its not going to work too good.

Let me tell you about this "god" here. I have a few split ends in my hair right now. Im wearing a grubby old T-shirt and a pair of workout spandex shorts and smelly trainers. I am not sat at a mainframe computer, just an ordinary desktop with a little bit of muscle. I am sat on an ordinary chair not some leather executive luxury chair. I live in a detatched 4 bed house with my parents and brother... and my main form of transport is my legs. No Wolf-mobile yet sadly.

So this is one of the many GW "gods" as you can see its hardly Mt Olympus.

So please refrain from the clever comments, because they are for want of a better term "bull****" we are all mere mortals of flesh and blood, I can assure you. So lay off the smart remarks.

[Erich Topp]

A Hurricane flies at speeds of over 300 knots. That is pretty fast you know. Faster than some modern planes now. But you claim you do hit them....

Place Hurricane in editor such way, that he will fly directly over your head. Make circular waypoints for him. After 7-8 circulations his speed will reduce twice. Now you can shot at him the way you wish. I did it on basic GWX install without any improvements.

penetration is the name of the game... U-Boat hulls were designed to withstand explosions and pressure forces, not gunfire.

Hardened steel is hardened steel everywhere. It can definately be crushed by 3-inch shell, but not .50 cal.

A hand held machine gun wouldn't harm it, but a mounted 20 mm with armour piercings?

We were speaking about .50 cal, it's first. Not about 20mm. If speak about 20mm, all depends on distance and circumstances. 20mm shell is effective on distances less than 2000 meters. Otherwise it's speed isn't enough again to penetrate PH. It's more seriuous question, of course. I agree, that on 100 meters 20mm gun should definately cheese U-boat. But I also believe than on 500 meters 20mm should cheese Hurricane.

You are the only one who is complaining about the deck gun. There is nothing wrong with the Deck gun.

I can make some screenshots, but you will say that I increased DG power to make them. So it's useless. Anyway I decreased 88 and 105 power for me already. Kpt. Lehmann in GWX thread already said, that man-driven gun can split a target when hitting proper places, which made for torpedo damage model. So we need to use DG only with AI crew. Are you going to confront your team leader words?

All other parts of your post is your paranoja, Penelope.

It's all empty talks actually. Just talks about game and game behaviour. If there's no real feedback and help, speaking further more is a lost of time. That's it.

PS: And it's good sometime to wash anyway. Being a great modder do not free from hygiene))

PPS: And that's why you are modder, Penelope. To feel yourself a god here. To became virtual person, which has respect. Psychology and complex, all about that. I've seen a lot for my 10 online years)) Maybe sometimes I am too sharp and offensive in words, and my english isn't perfect, but I never lie and never say something I am not sure in))

[AVGWarhawk]

And thus ends this thread.