'Many' muslims moving back to ME

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by U-533

I think they promote lying to Infidels in oder to kill Infidels.

Eh... let's not forget that not everybody living in the West labeling himself as "Muslim" is a man-eating monster. As a whole community, movement, cultural influence, however you name it, they are lying to us infidels, yes. But there are also many individuals (not collectives) who are serious when confessing they want to adopt to Western laws and constitutions and values. but they keep on lying to themselves about what it means to be muslim, they talk it sweet in their own imgination, and censor input of facts from science and history that could shaken their self-perception. They want - for whatever the reason is - still being regarded as something that by their deeds and decisions they alraedy partially have abandoned. These are Muslims that I call non-true Muslims. not with all, but with many of these you can come along. I did.

But a person that is truly Muslim in Muhammad's understanding - such a person is a problem for everybody - nobody's friend, all world's enemy. Such a person cannot be integrated, cannot be tamed, cannot be changed or civilised or educated. Hate, intolerance, arrogance and aggressiveness is following in his wake. Fight for survival in many obvious and not-so-obvious forms flames up wherever such people appear. - You keep them away, or you kill them, else you loose your house, your home, your identity, your culture - everything.

Concerning the first group, those that I call untrue Muslims, it nevertheless is to be demanded from them that they stop their self-ordered blindness, critically check and examione their "belief" from an outside perspective, and stand up against those who in the name of Islam claim special rights and growing influence of Islam in the West. If they do not do this, their integration fails as well, but for different reasons, and they help to propagate and support evil although having good intentions - that nevertheless do not reach far enough to stand up and make a difference. the passive silence you face when demanding etsern Muslims to raise and "make the difference" is tell-taling. And then it is the time when I say they should leave as well, sorry. You either play in our team, and our kind of game, and according to our rules, or you don't. You fit in, or you don't.

Never mistake immigration with colonization.

This European immigration problem does not compare to the immigration problems america has. Because america may be stormed by immigrants from the south as well, nevertheless these are of no different cultural origin and faith. Middle and South Americans are - Christians, and they are not about replacing laws and constitutions with the rules of some exotic and hyper-aggressive cult that aims for world domination and is totalitarian by nature.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Skybird

There are no different Islams. There is only one Islam: Muhammad's Islam. This is the basis on which all "different traditions" of Islam are founding upon. Be Islamic in the way Muhammad wanted it to be, and you are true Islamic. Reject some of his demands and regulations, and you are not Islmaic, but free to be killed if not obeying. Being sunni or shia is no issue here.

That'S what many Islamic people living in the West do not want to realise when embracing some of the Western rights and liberties, at the cost of some of the old Muhammedan practices. Muhammad did not know "some yes, some no." He only knew "all or nothing at all".

Tolerance was not really a shining characteristic of this man.

OK, so if Muslims in the West are ignoring this, surely that's a good thing?
Given that the topic is about muslims and not Islam, I think you're conflating the two.
In the same way that a lot of Catholics don't mind about abortion or stem cell research.

[TteFAboB]

Originally Posted by Skybird

There are no different Islams. There is only one Islam: Muhammad's Islam. This is the basis on which all "different traditions" of Islam are founding upon. Be Islamic in the way Muhammad wanted it to be, and you are true Islamic. Reject some of his demands and regulations, and you are not Islmaic, but free to be killed if not obeying. Being sunni or shia is no issue here.

That'S what many Islamic people living in the West do not want to realise when embracing some of the Western rights and liberties, at the cost of some of the old Muhammedan practices. Muhammad did not know "some yes, some no." He only knew "all or nothing at all".

Tolerance was not really a shining characteristic of this man

Don't blame him . Religions are not cooking recipes. Accept it in block or reject it in block. No pincing and slicing. Take the package or drop the package. Otherwise it's a heresy, declare your new religion already.

Have no illusions, all the facts and arguments were thrown at D'Souza. The conclusion was completely unfavourable to his proposition both rhetorically and dialectically. That's why he managed to trigger a debate in the first place anyway.

But that's the idea. Get these "untrue Muslims" as you call them on our side against the conqueror-wannabes. Set the hostages free and turn them on their captors.

[dean_acheson]

As soon as the 'leaders' of the Muslim community, like CAIR and their ilk, stand up and say, "we accept the basic politcal premises of a liberal nation-state and we denouce all forms of terrorism be it Hamas, Hizbollah, Al Queada, etc., etc., etc., (instead of terrorism is bad but the dirty land stealing Jews deserve it)" then I will be willing to accept the Islamic activist like I accept a abortion activist, or a black southern baptist, or a dirty hippy, or an amway salesman.

I might not agree with all the opinions of the last four, but I don't worry that they think their shortcut to a bunch of virgins involves blowing me up because I don't face east everyday and pray five times.

[U-533]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

OK, so if Muslims in the West are ignoring this, surely that's a good thing?
Given that the topic is about muslims and not Islam, I think you're conflating the two.
In the same way that a lot of Catholics don't mind about abortion or stem cell research.

Wait wait wait.......

Wait a minute....

I'am under the belief that Islam or Islam-ism is the religion and Muslims are but one flavor of believers

and when Islamists is used it's throwing them (all flavors) all in to the pile or pot...

:hmm:


.....................?..........................

umm



What?

[Skybird]

the term "islamism" is a Western invention. Like is "fundamentalism", that derives from a perception of european imperialist powers and america when the resistance to the foreigners in Marocco suddenly turned from verbal debate to violant deed, longer while ago. If you believe in Islam, than you are Muslim. Or in my terminology: you are Muhammedan, and Islam is more precisely described as Muhammedanism (without necessarily any motivation of mine to offend anybody: I just reserve the right to use the most precise terminology that has been in use for long time until before WW2). All other word construction are European's attempts to imagine a kind of Islam that is non-existant but exists in their imagination only and as a form of xyz-ism that the european approach can deal with. But true Islam is something you can't deal with. You get dealt. amnd this is what europeans try to appease by refusing the realize the harsh and aggressive truth about Islam. Allahu Akbar - what armies and conquests have not accieved for Muhammad's followers, now voluntarily is conducted by the prey. Wonder and miracle! Allah is great!

[U-533]

Originally Posted by Skybird

the term "islamism" is a Western invention. Like is "fundamentalism", that derives from a perception of european imperialist powers and america when the resistance to the foreigners in Marocco suddenly turned from verbal debate to violant deed, longer while ago. If you believe in Islam, than you are Muslim. Or in my terminology: you are Muhammedan, and Islam is more precisely described as Muhammedanism (without necessarily any motivation of mine to offend anybody: I just reserve the right to use the most precise terminology that has been in use for long time until before WW2). All other word construction are European's attempts to imagine a kind of Islam that is non-existant but exists in their imagination only and as a form of xyz-ism that the european approach can deal with. But true Islam is something you can't deal with. You get dealt. amnd this is what europeans try to appease by refusing the realize the harsh and aggressive truth about Islam. Allahu Akbar - what armies and conquests have not accieved for Muhammad's followers, now voluntarily is conducted by the prey. Wonder and miracle! Allah is great!

Ok I got that...

and I didn't even drool.

Thank you Skybird*

*no sarcasm was detected in U-533's Thank you to Skybird feel free to except it with no hesitation

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

They're lucky the wind isn't that strong in Britain or the snow too heavy.

Or the judges too judicious.

What are they spiking their white wig powder with?

[jumpy]

Not specifically connected with my original post, but there's an interesting article in the times online which might indicate, in a roundabout sort of way, that at least some are returning to the UK with their eyes open to what this country is all about with freedom and equality (most definitely when compared to some other countries). It's a shame that it takes an extreme experience to realise it, but I suppose that's what some people require at the end of the day.
The tone of the article reads very closely with (imo) the religious policeman blog which I enjoyed reading immensely whilst it was still live.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle1685726.ece

It goes on for quite some length, but is an interesting read none the less and despite it not revealing anything 'new' as it were.
Some of the comments are worth a look-in too- the usual mix, and some quite insightful remarks.

[The Avon Lady]

Ping:

Originally Posted by jumpy

Not specifically connected with my original post, but there's an interesting article in the times online which might indicate, in a roundabout sort of way, that at least some are returning to the UK with their eyes open to what this country is all about with freedom and equality (most definitely when compared to some other countries).

Pong.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Ping:
Pong.

Shoulder to shoulder with shields and batons and have at them.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Or the judges too judicious.

What are they spiking their white wig powder with?

This is why we are cutting our own throats.

ps. Now I've had my two ant-social comments and feel better.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Now I've had my two ant-social comments and feel better.

Do that again for another one or two days and you will be elected as mascot of all this board's united subversive elements!