Frugality

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Letum

Sorry for all the questions! Your replys are very much appreciated!

I have something add Letum - There have been many days when I think that my life would be 'improved' if I didn't have half the crap I own. My thoughts go this direction on the days they break typically though. When the car needs work, or a computer breaks, sometimes I feel that maybe it would be best if I didn't have these things? Is my life too complicated? There is truth to your story above in a way, so that is why I find this thread interesting by the way.

-S

PS. A story as an example is my old SAAB 9000 Aero. A rocket ship no less, but man - I dumped thousands upon thousands into that thing in repairs (way past 5 digits). Some days i wished that thing never existed, but talk about a sleeper car! Mine had a slow wastegate so my pressures built up probably 300 ft/lbs of torque no problem, and maintained it in a perfectly flat torque curve starting at 1800 RPM through 6K. A guy in a Ferrari 512 TR figured this out once and when he gunned it, I didn't go away like he thought I was supposed to. I think he thought his car was broken after that! I took his lane from him and there was nothing he could do about it. But of course this extra stress on the tranny took that out no problem too at some point and costs me $5K to get it fixed. Everything that broke on that car cost 4 plus digits to get fixed. It was nuts. Had it by the end and thought my life would be simplier if I got rid of it and I did.

I replaced it with another SAAB - A 93 Aero (With all options so there is more to break! But of course much slower car so it has less stress on it), but that had a warranty - up until last week. Hmmm.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

False. I've seen different myself as has many other people in this forum. You have a form of passive competiveness at the very least!

Really? That's interesting :p

I'm not arguing with that or anything though. I think passive competitiveness is different from competitiveness as such. I don't think I've ever had any interest in putting myself up as some great #1, and I'm not proud of that either - I'd probably be much more productive in life if I really aspired to some sort of big goals. Instead I just get by on mostly challenging my own laziness.

Oh, and I hate the PC. I wish I could throw it out the window, but then my work, my school, most of my communication with friends and a large part of my hobbies are far more efficient through a PC. It saves me a lot of energy and stress, but it also adds some. If I could do without it, I would.

Note how I said 'hobbies'. That's a sign of where my priorities lie!

[August]

There is a basic and vast difference between forced frugality and frugality by choice.

However Diogenes was not frugal. After all he wasted a perfectly good bowl.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by August

There is a basic and vast difference between forced frugality and frugality by choice.

However Diogenes was not frugal. After all he wasted a perfectly good bowl.

Prahaps "frugality" is not quite the word I am looking for....

I mean: detachment from the material.

[August]

Originally Posted by Letum

Prahaps "frugality" is not quite the word I am looking for....

I mean: detachment from the material.

I know what you mean. A balance in all things, including the material, is the best course to chart through life I think Letum. As Diogenes shows us there is such a thing as too much detachment. After all the man was living in a barrel and eating with his hands with no visible means of support. That is hardly a life I would choose to live.

To answer your questions specifically:

Is there something inherently good about a frugal life?
Not on it's own. There should be a reason for frugality beyond for its own sake.

Is there a kind of spiritual contentedness that can only be found when the material is cast aside?
Possibly depending on what that material is. Like if said material was both unattainable and unnecessary and the pursuit of it was destroying ones life or hurting others.

Is frugality just a kind of laziness that forces other people to work harder?
Again, depends on the situation.

At what point does frugality become neglect?
Neglect? Of whom or what? Not sure where you're going with this one.

Do the frugal miss out on important parts of life? or conversely, do the wealthy miss out on important parts of life?
Possibly and possibly, as all it depends on what you consider important, but wealth is not the opposite of frugality. One can be rich and frugal just as one can be poor and wasteful, indeed the degree of either can be the result of frugality or the lack of it.

[Iceman]

Matthew 14

[24] But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.
[25] And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.
[26] And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
[27] But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.
[28] And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
[29] And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
[30] But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
[31] And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?


The lesson here I learn and try to apply to my life is, when I turn my eyes from the Lord is when I sink...the cares of life begin to make me sink but as long as I keep my eyes on my Lord I can walk on water with him.Anything that turns the eyes from the Lord "can" cause man to stumble.Yes easier for a camel to through the eye of a neddle than a rich man to enter to heaven...not impossible but dang hard and I think we all can see why....so many divers temptations and distractions.

I have been blessed with every thing in life I have ever prayed for...a family,a way to provide for them and yet I know and have instructed my wife that the Lord giveth and taketh away....like Job.

Take NoThing for granted all is from the Lord and to be given thanks for.

frugal? yes I think it is really a blessing in disguise for many and the poor and destitute are a test for the rich...

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by CCIP

2) They grow used to having little and enjoying the heck out of it, and live a quiet life without ambition (cause it could always be worse)

[Letum]

Originally Posted by August

At what point does frugality become neglect?
Neglect? Of whom or what? Not sure where you're going with this one.

Yes, I should have made my self more clear.

Here is an example:
A Benedictine monk practices sexual abstinence to devote his life more fully to his religion. He may also abstain from his secret desire to drive fast cars.
By denying him self these hedonisms, is he denying part of him self and neglecting parts of who he is?

I'm talking about neglect of parts of ones own personality.

Originally Posted by August

wealth is not the opposite of frugality. One can be rich and frugal just as one can be poor and wasteful, indeed the degree of either can be the result of frugality or the lack of it.

One can be detached from the material, but have many material possessions?

I suppose there are (or have been) many totally abstaining and frugal monks who sleep on simple beds and eat basic food inside of million dollar monasteries which own hundreds of acres of land.

It's a very interesting thought, but doesn't quite seam right somehow.... I can't work out quite why atm.

[geetrue]

The only reason to throw away your bowl is when you buy disposable bowls ...

Never throw away a stainless steel bowl ...
they keep your fingers cleaner