Firearms yes or no

[1mPHUNit0]

Accidents happen, and martial arts are an activity prone to them, trust me.

No, its not so
There are position of blocking
and others positions that kill noting even if you want

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

I agree. You can't punch or kick someone across a room...

You can if you're Chuck Norris :p


Anyway, this is a debate which has been raging for years. Its my opinion that a firearm is a legitamate defense, yet one which should be used as a real last resort. Why make that burglar's death quick?

But seriously, in response to Penelope's post, firearms shouldnt be used for outright homicide. At most, a limb shot would be enough, I'd imagine.

[ASWnut101]

What's easier to hit? A arm/leg or the torso?

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

What's easier to hit? A arm/leg or the torso?

Center of mass.

Death is not assured. Stopping the situation is.

[U-533]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

Anyway, this is a debate which has been raging for years. Its my opinion that a firearm is a legitamate defense, yet one which should be used as a real last resort. Why make that burglar's death quick?

But seriously, in response to Penelope's post, firearms shouldnt be used for outright homicide. At most, a limb shot would be enough, I'd imagine.

To answer your question: The burglar's death should be as quick as possible.

Reason 1: You never know what kind of firepower it's packing.
Reason 2: You never know what it's intentions really are.
Reason 3: You may have to target a second burglar...or third...or fourth...etc
Reason 4: You don't know what kind of pain killing drugs it's on.
Reason 5: You may suffer a lawsuit and have to support it the rest of your life, and it's family.

Shooting it's limb and wounding it will only cause you tremendous headaches... Kill it and tell the law "I was in fear of my life and my family's I SHOT TO STOP IT "... anything less and your asking for trouble from bleeding heart liberal thinking folk who wish to spend your hard earned money on a rehabilitation programs that never works.

Let me repeat myself here.

Let it live or wound it and you will pay for it to sit in prison for a vacation and when it gets out it may seek revenge.
Kill it and tax dollars may pay for it's funeral and sleep at ease knowing that it will not be coming back.

If it weren't for all that ... I say peel the burglar and dip it in vinegar and hang it outside as a trophy and warning.

[Penelope_Grey]

I don't think guns are really as good as Martial Arts when it comes to defending ones self. As to my mind, a gun is an offensive weapon which epitomises the saying, "the best defence is a good offence" guns can kill, Martial Arts can kill, but a skilled Martial Artist cannot accidentally kill someone, they have to do it deliberately, which if they do makes them a murderer. But you can unintentionally kill someone with a gun, there is a good chance of that.

However, both a gun, and Martial Arts knowledge in the wrong hands can be lethal.

[TteFAboB]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

a skilled Martial Artist cannot accidentally kill someone

Ask Skybird.

Waste-gate what do you mean by worthy? "Legitimate"? In a position of self-defense, I don't recognize the authority of anybody but me to judge the legitimacy of my actions.

Considering the other forms to be worthy, then it's worthy aswell. A dedicated gunslinger can defeat a pack of dedicated swordsmen or dedicated hand-to-hand fighters:

Learn to shoot from the hip and you can engage in CQB. The cowboy wins: . And the fat cowboy is slowly getting there:

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

I don't think guns are really as good as Martial Arts when it comes to defending ones self. As to my mind, a gun is an offensive weapon which epitomises the saying, "the best defence is a good offence" guns can kill, Martial Arts can kill, but a skilled Martial Artist cannot accidentally kill someone, they have to do it deliberately, which if they do makes them a murderer. But you can unintentionally kill someone with a gun, there is a good chance of that.

However, both a gun, and Martial Arts knowledge in the wrong hands can be lethal.

I understand you have little knowledge of firearms in your country, but you are wrong on the defense portion of things. I understand Hollywood makes a pistol out to be a super weapon (They never miss in movies it seems), but in reality, its good for about 20 feet reliably, though it is very manuverable in close quarters and is a decent close quarters weapon. It is purely a defense weapon and anyone that thinks it can be used offensively in more than a crutch manner have never used one. That is why your boys in Iraq don't even bother to carry a pistol.

Only a rifle could be coined an offensive weapon.

-S

PS. If it is serious enough to put someone down, they probably deserve to die by the way.

PPS. You don't have to shoot to kill either by the way - just like a martial arts person - that is another Hollywood myth that anyone that gets shot in the torso dies. SHoot a leg if you have to. Problem is in this day in age, whether you use martial arts or guns and do not kill your attacker, you may get sued for the rest of your life over it.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I understand you have little knowledge of firearms in your country, but you are wrong on the defense portion of things. I understand Hollywood makes a pistol out to be a super weapon (They never miss in movies it seems), but in reality, its good for about 20 feet reliably, though it is very manuverable in close quarters and is a decent close quarters weapon. It is purely a defense weapon and anyone that thinks it can be used offensively in more than a crutch manner have never used one. That is why your boys in Iraq don't even bother to carry a pistol.

Only a rifle could be coined an offensive weapon.

If you're mugged by someone with a pistol, then it's an offensive weapon. Any weapon can be used offensively.

PPS. You don't have to shoot to kill either by the way - just like a martial arts person - that is another Hollywood myth that anyone that gets shot in the torso dies. SHoot a leg if you have to. Problem is in this day in age, whether you use martial arts or guns and do not kill your attacker, you may get sued for the rest of your life over it.

Ok, through my limited experience of gun use, it's hard enough to hit someone without worrying about tricky bits of anatomy. Especially in a tense situation. There are posters online with much more experience, so have at it

[Yahoshua]

For those of us who own a firearm and think they can hit a kneecap of a mugger or robber at close range, please commit to the following exercise:

Will need:

-1 clay pigeon.
-Sidearm of your choice with preferred method of concealment and ONE round for said sidearm.
-trusting friend

Phase 1.

Step one: Go to firing range and have a friend hold onto the clay pigeon for you while you do the following.

Step two: Park vehicle one mile from firing range (preferably with a hill somewhere in between)

Step three: Arrange sidearm as you would while carrying concealed.

Step four: RUN all the way to the range, immediatly upon arrival do 20 rapid pushups. During step four, your friend will place the clay pigeon on the range and exit the line of fire

Step five: Immediatly upon completion of step four you will jump to your feet, quickdraw your sidearm, and use the ONE round you have in your sidearm to hit that clay pigeon. If it's a fluke, do it again.

Phase 2.

Repeat phase 1 except using a mannequin for a target. More likely than not, you'll aim for center mass every time rather than try for a kneecap.

[August]

The thing you have to remember about robbers is that they are opportunists and will naturally gravitate toward the easier pickings. IE: An unoccupied home is easier to rob than an occupied one and, in unexpected encounters, an unarmed victim is easier to deal with (dispose of) than an armed one. In those situations the mere presence of a gun in a homeowners hands or that unmistakeable sound of a .12 gage pump being operated and the gruff "who's there?" sounding from somewhere upstairs, can be enough to defuse the situation before it comes to violence. The robber just beats a hasty exit for easier pickings.

The Criminal that enters a home he knows to be occupied is a different story. He has a plan to deal with (or dispose of) those he expects to find there. While having a gun in that situation is certainly no guarentee of safety it can give the victim a chance at survival. On the other side of the coin however the unarmed victim has absolutely no chance of preventing the criminal from doing whatever he wants to do so it's a case of betting your life and your families lives that he won't slit everyones throats to eliminate witnesses.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

...It is purely a defense weapon and anyone that thinks it can be used offensively in more than a crutch manner have never used one.....

Originally Posted by Tchocky

If you're mugged by someone with a pistol, then it's an offensive weapon. Any weapon can be used offensively.

That is why I say it is only a crutch. Due to Hollywood, a pistol also seems to carry a phycological super weapon mentallity along with it - something it is not.

Ok, through my limited experience of gun use, it's hard enough to hit someone without worrying about tricky bits of anatomy. Especially in a tense situation. There are posters online with much more experience, so have at it

Myth #1 is - you fall down and die when shot. Hardly. The people who fall down only do so phychologically since this is what they have seen in the movies and think that they are instantly going to die. THen you get to real life where Philly cops shot a suspect 32 times over about 20 minutes and he still was returning fire like nothing was wrong! The point is - if you don't hit anything vital, it is nothing more than a deep flesh wound.

Another example of Hollywood garbage - the Red Baron had his heart completely removed from his body by the shot that killed him, yet he still managed to land his plane and talk to the British troops before dying. Yet Hollywood wants you all to think that when shot, you drop to the floor instantly dead. Not the case.

No wonder people have a hate for firearms - Hollywood created them to be super weapons!

[ASWnut101]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

...THen you get to real life where Philly cops shot a suspect 32 times over about 20 minutes and he still was returning fire like nothing was wrong!

That was New Jersey. Each cop fired two full magazines into a guy sitting in a car. I think he lived, too.

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

PPS. You don't have to shoot to kill either by the way - just like a martial arts person - that is another Hollywood myth that anyone that gets shot in the torso dies. SHoot a leg if you have to. Problem is in this day in age, whether you use martial arts or guns and do not kill your attacker, you may get sued for the rest of your life over it.

I would rather have that, than someone's death on my conscience. Even if they were the dregs of society.

[August]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

I would rather have that, than someone's death on my conscience. Even if they were the dregs of society.

Whose death would you rather have on your concience? A dreg of society or your families because you stood by and did nothing?