LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Database Mod v3.072 --- Now Available!!!

[Fearless]

That's what I thought as well otherwise terrain following would not be possible.

[ASWnut101]

Hpmf. Look here:


The Tomahawk land-attack cruise missile has been used to attack a variety of fixed targets, including air defense and communications sites, often in high-threat environments. The land attack version of Tomahawk has inertial and terrain contour matching (TERCOM) radar guidance. The TERCOM radar uses a stored map reference to compare with the actual terrain to determine the missile's position. If necessary, a course correction is then made to place the missile on course to the target. Terminal guidance in the target area is provided by the optical Digital Scene Matching Area Correlation (DSMAC) system, which compares a stored image of target with the actual target image.

And the terminal guidance, I guess could technically be called a guidance sensor. It compares target images. That's it.

So, I don't consider that a sensor per-se. And the dispenser variant does NOT have a sensor. Just fly here and despense.

courtesy FAS.org

[fatty]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

So, I don't consider that a sensor per-se.

Radar and/or some sort of camera... What, then, would you consider a sensor?

And these websites suggest that the TLAM-D does use TERCOM at least.

[Fearless]

Yep, I didn't think the word "sensor" would become a "proof me wrong" issue.

Whether it is a guidance system, radar or whatever it's deemed to be called, it still is a sensor in layman terms, The TLAM still has to adjust it's flight altitude according to height variations and that's done through sensing height variations.

That's it debate over. back to the original topic.

Nice piccies though

[fatty]

Apologies for highjacking

[LuftWolf]

Where was everyone when this problem was in LWAMI 3.06? :hmm:

I've got some test scenarios of people trying to attack things on sea mountain tops and such... pretty extreme conditions, but since the stock works it should work in LWAMI as well.

I'll probably have to reconstruct the TLAM's completely if we want to keep the TIW messages for them, since the change appears to have damaged the terrain following, and doing it the way I've been doing it will only take care of 85% of situations where people seem to want to use TLAM's.

So, I've got a backup plan which actually seems to be tailor made for the TLAM's.

Stay tuned.

Cheers,
David

[Fearless]

Originally Posted by fatty

Apologies for highjacking

Quite the contrary fatty, I agree with your statement As a matter of fact some TLAMs have DSMAC which is an electro-optical sensor system. Check it here: http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-109.html

[Bellman]

LW: ''Here is a new TLAM doctrine. I want all of you having TLAM problems to try this AND GIVE ME FEEDBACK ABOUT HOW IT WORKS.''

Tested the new doctrine and there is no change here from 3.072. The TLAMs still make no attempt to terrain follow. Both 3.072 and new doctrine installed as per instructions.

Edit: Further tests show SS-N-27 fails as above.(including post new doctrine) Both missiles perform correct terrain following in Stock 1.04.when the Mod is deactivated.

[Fearless]

LW,

Ok, I went into the TLAMsub.txt file and made a small adjustment to the following:

IF TerrainAlt > -100 THEN {
SetPriority 249
SetAlt ( TerrainAlt + 800 )

The -100 was -50 before and + 800 was + 400 before. I then targetted a building in a mountainess area and set the waypoints so that the flightpath went over the highest points of the mountains.

Location for testing was Portugal with altitudes of 2500 feet asl

This seem to work as the Tomahawk changed altitude when required and then descended back to 50 feet.

I tried different waypoint directions 4 times and the each of the Tomahawks reached it's target every time. I hope you don't mind me having a go at it as it seemed to work.

[Fish]

When I disable the LWAMI 3.72 and try to play stock 104, I get a error 13023?

[LuftWolf]

Originally Posted by Fish

When I disable the LWAMI 3.72 and try to play stock 104, I get a error 13023?

Fish, I'm not sure what that error means. Database issues when reenabling stock usually come about as result of not having properly uninstalled ALL of the previous Mod version AFTER disabling the Mod, including manually deleting any files left over in the Mod folder.

I'd recommend reinstalling DW at this point and the Mod fresh, since it's not possible to know what happened to the files at this point.

Let me know how it goes.

Cheers,
David

[LuftWolf]

Ok, here is the best I can do to solve this problem while retaining a true TIW message for the sublaunched Land Attack Missiles.

My solution is simply to have the missiles fly higher.

Not really that fabulous a solution, but's the best I got, after three days of messing around with it.

I'm going to compensate for the increased altitude, and therefore exposure, of the missiles by reducing their radar signature to limit detection to the equivalent LOS horizon range at which they were previously detected on the deck.

You should also be aware that stock LAM's don't really "terrain follow", since they fly about 400ft off the ground when over land to give them an extra cushion.

The only things, from a functional perspective that is going to be lost in this change is the detection of the missiles during their ballistic launch, but there is nothing saying that TLAM's necessarily have to go dead straight up a few thousand feet when fired real life... in fact, I don't think they do. :hmm:

So, here is the hopefully final doctrine: www.commanders-academy.com/luftwolf/TLAMsub_Test.zip .

Please let me know if it works for you.

If it doesn't work, I can always go higher... but there is a point at which it would get ridiculous and we just have to not put land targets in certain places...

I'm not suggesting that most users install it, unless they want to fire TLAM's in situations where they are crashing, since I need to reduce the detectiblity of the LAM's to make them less likely to get shot down at higher altitudes.

Cheers,
David

[Molon Labe]

Well, just to be fair about 'certain places,' there's a reason I used Time on Target as my test bed. And those missiles are crashing on the coastline sometimes, I don't have to try to fly them over the mountains in front of the base.

[Molon Labe]

It's definitely an improvement from the last one. The altitude over land is OK too, visually I don't see much of a difference. It's definitely higher over water though.

Anyways, using Time on Target and firing directly over the inland mountains, I had 6/6 missiles reach the target. Two missiles did not detonate on their targets, but I think this was missile-fratricide rather than any sort of deletion-glitch. It's like 688I all over again. =) Maybe this is a realism plus? More on this if I notice it again. But anyways, no problem crossing the coast, and it made it over the inland mountains--which is something you don't have to or should do when you play ToT AND 1/6 will crash in stock.

I also have a custom test set in Iran, 3 targets at different places inland. This isn't so much a practical application test as it is a worst-case scenario, since the terrain is quite mountainous. None of the missiles reached the 3 targets. In the stock game, I think 2 are reached, the long one doesn't get hit because of the "nose dive" issue. What I've found using this map is that you need to watch out for sharp inclines that are on the order of 1500ft+. Now, over what horizontal distance that needs to be, I don't know, but its a rule of wrist.

I'm going to do that test over and see if waypoints alleviate the problem.

[Bill Nichols]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Well, just to be fair about 'certain places,' there's a reason I used Time on Target as my test bed....

Glad to be of service