'Seawolves' contains Mods by... - Page 18

Beery · 07-27-05, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abraham

And "cheating the community"? No way, a few days ago there was even talk of dividing the community. Now we are stronger and more united on this issue than ever.
The ones who will be cheated are the people outside the community who will buy this X 1 product.

By 'the community' I mean everyone who plays the game. I regard all SH3 players as one big community.

Beery · 07-27-05, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrapin

How about posting a draft of a letter inhere, so people can use it?

The problem with doing that is that companies are more likely to dismiss or downplay issues when they get lots of the exact same letter coming through. It makes it look like spam or a PR campaign. It's far more effective when they get lots of letters clearly written by individuals.

07-27-05, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beery

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrapin

How about posting a draft of a letter inhere, so people can use it?

The problem with doing that is that companies are more likely to dismiss or downplay issues when they get lots of the exact same letter coming through. It makes it look like spam or a PR campaign. It's far more effective when they get lots of letters clearly written by individuals.

A valid point....

Beery · 07-27-05, 10:06 AM

I wish I could find out where to send such a letter. I've searched Ubisoft's site and I can't find anything that relates to legal issues or general complaints, or anything like that.

07-27-05, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beery

I wish I could find out where to send such a letter. I've searched Ubisoft's site and I can't find anything that relates to legal issues or general complaints, or anything like that.

I'd send it to the PR (press) department...

Abraham · 07-27-05, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beery

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abraham

And "cheating the community"? No way, a few days ago there was even talk of dividing the community. Now we are stronger and more united on this issue than ever.
The ones who will be cheated are the people outside the community who will buy this X 1 product.

By 'the community' I mean everyone who plays the game. I regard all SH3 players as one big community.

I will not start a fight about thÃs, dear Beery, but I must say I disagree. The Community is the people who actively engage on these forums. I know a few outside who are real golfholes and I would not like to consider them members of this Community.
You know them too; one used his active sonar on this thread and got exposed, surfaced in the UBI-forum a few times. Left some stinking diesel fumes...

@ Shadow9216: I like the word 'theftware' by Beery, that you just registered. Can I use it? Then you can use 'copywrong' which I just registered and we could write lines like: "X1 will have copywrong on its theftware..."

Beery · 07-27-05, 10:34 AM

Well, what I mean to say is that the regular players are our community too. I think it is a mistake to have an 'us and them' mentality, separating Subsim members from the wider SH3-playing community. There are going to be victims of X1 outside our little band, and I think we need to look out for their interests too. It is more important to care for the game community as a whole - if we keep the interests of all players in mind, then all players will be supportive of us. If we keep only Subsim members in mind, we will only be able to rely on the support of Subsim members. It's a simple matter of numbers, and this is a time when everyone can benefit from supporting our cause. If we ignore the wider community, they will undoubtedly ignore us, because at the moment, most of them don't even know about this issue, and some don't see how it is threatening them. If we ignore them, they might easily be swayed by X1's argument, which amounts to "Hey, here's a new add-on for SH3 - buy it!" - it's a convincing argument, especially when we're not there to say "Hey folks, X1 is taking advantage of you!"

Beery · 07-27-05, 10:40 AM

For those who want to send letters/emails, here are the US and UK press contacts:

UNITED KINGDOM
Lidia Stojanovic
lidia.stojanovic@ubisoft.com
Chantrey Court
Minorca Road
Weybridge, Surrey
KT13 8DU
Tel: + 44 (1932) 838 230
Fax: + 44 (1932) 838 274

USA
Jaime Borasi
jaime.borasi@ubisoft.com
- 625 Third Street, 3rd floor
San Francisco - CA 94107
Tel: +1 (415) 547 4000
Fax: +1 (415) 547 4001

- Red Storm
3200 Gateway Centre Boulevard
Suite 100
Morrisville - NC 27560
Tel: +1 (919) 460 1776
Fax: +1 (919) 460 1502

07-27-05, 10:54 AM

There are no mods in the release version that are used without permission.

Watch for an official notice in the next day or two...

Nico71 · 07-27-05, 11:10 AM

"Bilge Rat" :rotfl:

Drebbel · 07-27-05, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico71

"Bilge Rat" :rotfl:

Not really, he is a Helmsman

Beery · 07-27-05, 11:21 AM

I've sent four emails to the British, French, German and US press offices at Ubisoft, expressing my worries about the Seewolfe product, and asking them to investigate the matter. I suggest others do the same. If X1 is acting ethically, no harm will be done, but if they are acting irresponsibly, then at least Ubisoft will be aware of the issue, and if they don't do anything about it, at least we'll know whose side Ubisoft is on.

jasonb885 · 07-27-05, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elder-Pirate

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beery

The problem as I see it is that if X1 gets these stolen mods published in a commercial form, and if they make money from them, they may automatically have a strong de facto ownership claim since they have a financial stake on these mods - which means that if the original authors of these mods try to release those mods (which are their own work) for free, X1 could even take them to court and have their own case in terms of loss of revenue, etc. The courts very likely regard copyright as only meaningful when loss of revenue is at issue. In such a case, the courts could be persuaded to disallow testimony regarding the original authorship, since the original authors ascribed no monetary value to the mod. That means that anything in the Seewolfe mod could be deemed illegal for any of us to use in free mods, even if one of us was the original author of that part of the mod. If Seewolfe is released in commercial form, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will have a copyright attached to it. If X1 are unprincipled enough to steal other peoples' work, do you really think they would balk at using a lawsuit to take some modmakers to the cleaners financially?

Good grief Beery thats scarery. I sure hope it dosn't come to that.

I can't imagine that would happen.

X1 is obviously a very small operation.

There will be no courts involved in this.

Seriously, guys, give it a rest already.

Or is someone here going to step up and retain a lawyer? No? Moving on...

jasonb885 · 07-27-05, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie McNeal

There are no mods in the release version that are used without permission.

Watch for an official notice in the next day or two...

Only after being caught and called out.

Funny.

Go stand in the corner.

Jace11 · 07-27-05, 11:45 AM

Can't wait till it's finally released, there are 2 or 3 games shops in town, Ill rush there, pick it up, have a look at the box, and slip it behind some title that nobody will ever buy...

Just gotta think of a really poor game for the PC in the simulation section. CFS??

Any ideas...

07-27-05, 10:06 AM	#259
Beery Admiral Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA (but still a Yorkshireman at heart - tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman...) Posts: 2,497 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I wish I could find out where to send such a letter. I've searched Ubisoft's site and I can't find anything that relates to legal issues or general complaints, or anything like that. __________________ "More mysterious. Yeah. I'll just try to think, 'Where the hell's the whiskey?'" - Bob Harris, Lost in Translation. "Anyrooad up, ah'll si thi" - Missen.

07-27-05, 10:34 AM	#262
Beery Admiral Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA (but still a Yorkshireman at heart - tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman...) Posts: 2,497 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well, what I mean to say is that the regular players are our community too. I think it is a mistake to have an 'us and them' mentality, separating Subsim members from the wider SH3-playing community. There are going to be victims of X1 outside our little band, and I think we need to look out for their interests too. It is more important to care for the game community as a whole - if we keep the interests of all players in mind, then all players will be supportive of us. If we keep only Subsim members in mind, we will only be able to rely on the support of Subsim members. It's a simple matter of numbers, and this is a time when everyone can benefit from supporting our cause. If we ignore the wider community, they will undoubtedly ignore us, because at the moment, most of them don't even know about this issue, and some don't see how it is threatening them. If we ignore them, they might easily be swayed by X1's argument, which amounts to "Hey, here's a new add-on for SH3 - buy it!" - it's a convincing argument, especially when we're not there to say "Hey folks, X1 is taking advantage of you!" __________________ "More mysterious. Yeah. I'll just try to think, 'Where the hell's the whiskey?'" - Bob Harris, Lost in Translation. "Anyrooad up, ah'll si thi" - Missen.

07-27-05, 10:40 AM	#263
Beery Admiral Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA (but still a Yorkshireman at heart - tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman...) Posts: 2,497 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	For those who want to send letters/emails, here are the US and UK press contacts: UNITED KINGDOM Lidia Stojanovic lidia.stojanovic@ubisoft.com Chantrey Court Minorca Road Weybridge, Surrey KT13 8DU Tel: + 44 (1932) 838 230 Fax: + 44 (1932) 838 274 USA Jaime Borasi jaime.borasi@ubisoft.com - 625 Third Street, 3rd floor San Francisco - CA 94107 Tel: +1 (415) 547 4000 Fax: +1 (415) 547 4001 - Red Storm 3200 Gateway Centre Boulevard Suite 100 Morrisville - NC 27560 Tel: +1 (919) 460 1776 Fax: +1 (919) 460 1502 __________________ "More mysterious. Yeah. I'll just try to think, 'Where the hell's the whiskey?'" - Bob Harris, Lost in Translation. "Anyrooad up, ah'll si thi" - Missen.

07-27-05, 10:54 AM	#264
Reggie McNeal Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Permissions There are no mods in the release version that are used without permission. Watch for an official notice in the next day or two...

07-27-05, 11:21 AM	#267
Beery Admiral Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA (but still a Yorkshireman at heart - tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman...) Posts: 2,497 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I've sent four emails to the British, French, German and US press offices at Ubisoft, expressing my worries about the Seewolfe product, and asking them to investigate the matter. I suggest others do the same. If X1 is acting ethically, no harm will be done, but if they are acting irresponsibly, then at least Ubisoft will be aware of the issue, and if they don't do anything about it, at least we'll know whose side Ubisoft is on. __________________ "More mysterious. Yeah. I'll just try to think, 'Where the hell's the whiskey?'" - Bob Harris, Lost in Translation. "Anyrooad up, ah'll si thi" - Missen.

07-27-05, 11:10 AM	#265
Nico71 Medic Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 168 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	"Bilge Rat" :rotfl:

07-27-05, 11:45 AM	#270
Jace11 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 683 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 1	Can't wait till it's finally released, there are 2 or 3 games shops in town, Ill rush there, pick it up, have a look at the box, and slip it behind some title that nobody will ever buy... Just gotta think of a really poor game for the PC in the simulation section. CFS?? Any ideas...