Next President of the United States

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

I believe the military has replaced the civilian militia (except in the case of the militia guarding our Southern borders).

And I believe that idea would have terrified the founders. A standing army was the thing they feared the most. That it has become necessary in the modern world is all the more reason to retain our natural rights - all of them.

Might as well advocate the removal of the Third Amendment, since it is so outdated. After all, when was the last time the Government tried to make you let soldiers stay at your house?

[Digital_Trucker]

Well, the whole thing was brought up by the video showing the "obama youth brigade" and my reference to Obama's call for a civilian defense force with a budget as high as the militarys. Just for the record, I don't necessarily agree with the interpretation that the military replaces the civilian militia. I do ,however, wonder exactly what Obama was calling for and would like to hear an explanation of his statement (from him, of course):hmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

Well, the whole thing was brought up by the video showing the "obama youth brigade" and my reference to Obama's call for a civilian defense force with a budget as high as the militarys. Just for the record, I don't necessarily agree with the interpretation that the military replaces the civilian militia. I do ,however, wonder exactly what Obama was calling for and would like to hear an explanation of his statement (from him, of course):hmm:

Great...another speech from the pulpit Heard enough of those, how about something with some real answers and substance? That aspect for Obama is long over due.

[Von Tonner]

Tonights debate is probably the most crucial and important event in McCain's political career. With less than 30 days to go he is increasingly finding himself between a rock and a hard place. All Obama has to do is make sure he doesn't fluff a question or have too many "ers" and "ums". McCain on the other hand has to turn the tide on the below polls which would need nothing short of a knock-out punch to Obama tonight. I will be setting my alarm clock as it is an early rise to catch it live.


State Polling Roundup Ohio Polls Split A Fox News/Rasmussen Reports automated poll of 1,000 likely Ohio voters taken October 5 shows McCain leading Obama 48%-47%. An ABC News /Washington Post poll of 891 registered Ohio voters, including 772 likely voters, taken October 3-5 shows Obama leading McCain 51%-43% among registered voters and 51%-45% among likely voters.
Obama Up 7 In Florida A Fox News/Rasmussen Reports automated poll of 1,000 likely Florida voters taken October 5 shows Obama leading McCain 52%-45%.
Obama Up 3 In Missouri A Fox News/Rasmussen Reports automated poll of 1,000 likely Missouri voters taken October 5 shows Obama leading McCain 50%-47%.
Obama Up 6 In Colorado A Fox News/Rasmussen Reports automated poll of 1,000 likely Colorado voters taken October 5 shows Obama leading McCain 51%-45%.
Obama Up In 2 Virginia Polls A SurveyUSA automated poll of 666 likely Virginia voters taken October 4-5 for a group of regional TV stations shows Obama leading McCain 53%-43%. A Fox News/Rasmussen Reports automated poll of 1,000 likely Virginia voters taken October 5 shows Obama leading McCain 50%-48%.
Obama Up 13 In New Hampshire A SurveyUSA automated poll 647 likely New Hampshire voters taken October 4-5 for WBZ-TV Boston shows Obama leading McCain 53%-40%.
Obama Up 6 In North Carolina A Public Policy Polling (D) survey of 1,202 likely North Carolina voters taken October 4-5 shows Obama leading McCain 50%-44%.

[Hylander_1314]

Sounds a lot like the commie extermination armies that were / are used to terrorize the general public. Obama Youth Brigade? Hitler Youth? Hmmmmmmmmmm, I just don't like the idea of it. It's one of those I smell a rat feelings.

But hey, I could be completely off base, but the first thing dear old dad taught me was to never trust, and always question the government, and all the authorities from top to bottom.

One of his favorites was, "When fascism comes to America, it will be draped in the flag, and carrying a cross."

Don't know if this has been brought up, but there is a lot of controversy over it even though it's not making a big splash in the news.
http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-134286-obama.html

[Digital_Trucker]

I've been following that story on a different site and was wondering what the outcome was going to be. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Thanks for the link

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Von Tonner

Tonights debate is probably the most crucial and important event in McCain's political career. With less than 30 days to go he is increasingly finding himself between a rock and a hard place. All Obama has to do is make sure he doesn't fluff a question or have too many "ers" and "ums". McCain on the other hand has to turn the tide on the below polls which would need nothing short of a knock-out punch to Obama tonight. I will be setting my alarm clock as it is an early rise to catch it live.


State Polling Roundup Ohio Polls Split A Fox News/Rasmussen Reports automated poll of 1,000 likely Ohio voters taken October 5 shows McCain leading Obama 48%-47%. An ABC News /Washington Post poll of 891 registered Ohio voters, including 772 likely voters, taken October 3-5 shows Obama leading McCain 51%-43% among registered voters and 51%-45% among likely voters.
Obama Up 7 In Florida A Fox News/Rasmussen Reports automated poll of 1,000 likely Florida voters taken October 5 shows Obama leading McCain 52%-45%.
Obama Up 3 In Missouri A Fox News/Rasmussen Reports automated poll of 1,000 likely Missouri voters taken October 5 shows Obama leading McCain 50%-47%.
Obama Up 6 In Colorado A Fox News/Rasmussen Reports automated poll of 1,000 likely Colorado voters taken October 5 shows Obama leading McCain 51%-45%.
Obama Up In 2 Virginia Polls A SurveyUSA automated poll of 666 likely Virginia voters taken October 4-5 for a group of regional TV stations shows Obama leading McCain 53%-43%. A Fox News/Rasmussen Reports automated poll of 1,000 likely Virginia voters taken October 5 shows Obama leading McCain 50%-48%.
Obama Up 13 In New Hampshire A SurveyUSA automated poll 647 likely New Hampshire voters taken October 4-5 for WBZ-TV Boston shows Obama leading McCain 53%-40%.
Obama Up 6 In North Carolina A Public Policy Polling (D) survey of 1,202 likely North Carolina voters taken October 4-5 shows Obama leading McCain 50%-44%.

A lot can happen in 30 days. A lot can happen in 30 seconds. Just watch a football game. It is not over yet. As of late, the Obama skeletons are coming out of the closet. Perhaps the big guns are being pulled out by the McCain campaign? I'm thinking yes. You watch, Palin is going to be the attack dog that VP's are supposed to be. She started this weekend. I find it odd that Rezko will not be arraigned until after the election. Does he know something? McCain/Palin just need to leave that taste of doubt in the voters minds. Hell, some still think Obama took the oath of office on the Koran. Now these very same folks hear he started his political career in a domestic terrorist livingroom. Some reports say America knows this already. I did not know this until yesterday. So, Obama was courting a known domestic terrorist that not only talked about bombing but actually carried it out. He got off on a technicality. Will Obama court other terrorists with big hugs from the White House. Bubba the beer drinker will not like that at all. The big gun of the Rev Wright debacle is not over yet either. Welcome to old age and treachery. There is a good possibility it will win out again.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by August

I'd be interested in hearing the person or persons you're talking about here.

Francis Schaeffer.

Do you think that Obama believes in the same things the Ayers does? And if so, are they Ayers ideas of the 2000's, when he was in contact with Obama, or are they the ideas of the 1970's, when Obama was eight years old?

An open question. What effect have Obama's interactions with Ayers had upon his political beliefs?
Surely this is the question that needs answering, not vague mumblings about "associations".

[August]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Francis Schaeffer.

Doh! I should have put that together.

Let me ask you though. Do you equal calling for violence the same as actually committing violence? That is after all the difference between Shaeffer and Ayers...

IMO both of them ought to be in jail.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by August

Doh! I should have put that together.

Let me ask you though. Do you equal calling for violence the same as actually committing violence? That is after all the difference between Shaeffer and Ayers...

IMO both of them ought to be in jail.

I was responding to your comments on Jeremiah Wright calling for violence, not Will Ayers.
The focus of Obama's associations, such as Wright and Ayers, have often left out the most obviously important part - the influence on the man running for President.

[August]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

The focus of Obama's associations, such as Wright and Ayers, have often left out the most obviously important part - the influence on the man running for President.

That's the whole point of bringing up their associations. His 20 year association with Rev. Wright we know about and i'd venture to say that even you can hardly say that this is a trifle.

As for Ayers, Obama has known the guy for, what, almost a decade now? Maybe he doesn't share Ayers more radical agendas (neither does Ayers unless we should hear he's taken up planting bombs again) but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility they share ideology and that is something that shouldn't be swept under the party rug.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by August

That's the whole point of bringing up their associations. His 20 year association with Rev. Wright we know about and i'd venture to say that even you can hardly say that this is a trifle.

As for Ayers, Obama has known the guy for, what, almost a decade now? Maybe he doesn't share Ayers more radical agendas (neither does Ayers unless we should hear he's taken up planting bombs again) but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility they share ideology and that is something that shouldn't be swept under the party rug.

I would be highly concerned if Senator Obama shares the same kind of ideology as Ayers. So is there any evidence to suggest such an idea be they statements made by Obama or his voting record or anything else for that matter? If so I would love to see it. If not then all we have here is a classic case of guilt by association which should have no bearing on which way people vote. :hmm:

[baggygreen]

Here's a question.

If one candidate wants to fundamentally change the country, would a comment like that get a lot of people offside? Changing things is one thing, but at a fundamental level??

I was reading through an Aussie report of the latest debate and came across this snippet:

"In order to change the dynamics of this race, we anticipate that McCain will launch his nastiest attacks and continue to lie about Barack Obama's record and his vision to fundamentally change our country." - Bill Burton, Spokesman for Sen. Obama.

Exactly what is he looking to change... I've not seen any detailed plans, just plenty of sweeping statements without much information backing them up. That's from both sides, and common in politics, but what does he want to fundamentally change?!

[Fish]

Originally Posted by baggygreen

Here's a question.

If one candidate wants to fundamentally change the country, would a comment like that get a lot of people offside? Changing things is one thing, but at a fundamental level??

I was reading through an Aussie report of the latest debate and came across this snippet:

"In order to change the dynamics of this race, we anticipate that McCain will launch his nastiest attacks and continue to lie about Barack Obama's record and his vision to fundamentally change our country." - Bill Burton, Spokesman for Sen. Obama.

Exactly what is he looking to change... I've not seen any detailed plans, just plenty of sweeping statements without much information backing them up. That's from both sides, and common in politics, but what does he want to fundamentally change?!

In the context:

John McCain is running out of time for a game-changing event. In the latest sign of desperation, his campaign admitted just yesterday that if they "keep talking about the economic crisis, they're going to lose." It's our view that the American people are already worried about losing – their homes, their jobs and their health care – and it's up to the candidates at this debate to demonstrate who is best equipped to make sure that they can get ahead again.

In order to change the dynamics of this race, we anticipate that McCain will launch his nastiest attacks and continue to lie about Barack Obama's record and his vision to fundamentally change our country. We don't know if McCain will continue his refusal to even look at Obama on stage -- like in their first debate -- but we fully expect that his "turn the page" strategy to ignore the economy will be seen in full view for 90 minutes of character attacks against Barack Obama.

The fact is, McCain has erratically been all over the map in recent weeks, telling Americans that the fundamentals of the economy are strong only days before claiming to suspend his campaign and warning of another depression. John McCain just doesn't get it. The American people aren't interested in nasty, false attacks, and they're not interested in four more years of Bush policies. But that's all he's offering.

If all he does is attack Barack Obama, as he's said he'll do, it will be yet another colossal missed opportunity. In the face of those attacks, Barack Obama will continue to offer steady leadership, and talk about his plan to give real relief to the middle class and create good jobs here in America.

When it comes to sheer format, we enter today's debate the decided underdog. John McCain does extremely well in town hall settings. It's been his favorite format throughout his career and we think that he will of course do very well. See below for more reviews of John McCain's town hall performances.

[Torps]

In 2006 when we wanted change, we elected a democratic congress. When they took office this is what they got elected into....

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
4) the DOW JONES hit a record high--14,000 +


Since this congress took over...


1) Consumer confidence has plummeted.
2) Gasoline is now over $3:30 a gallon & was beyond $4.30 a gallon at one point.
3) Unemployment is up to 5.8% (a 22% increase).
4) 4) the DOW JONES hit 9300 , lowest its been since Sept 11.
5) Record number of American homes are in foreclosure.

So we wanted change we got it!