Destroyers Discussion (getting rid of pin point drops)

[Col7777]

I don't know CB, I was just following this thread and thought what the heck, try anything, I wasn't sure the sim would load but it did and played ok.
I did try renaming the Sim.DLL but that crashed the game, obviously it needs that one.

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Col7777

I don't know CB, I was just following this thread and thought what the heck, try anything, I wasn't sure the sim would load but it did and played ok.
I did try renaming the Sim.DLL but that crashed the game, obviously it needs that one.

nice one!! ok as the game will load with the sim.cfg completely removed (and it sounds like the DD's get very uber if you do this)
first thoughts on this would be
A) remove some of the entrys from the sim.cfg alto-gether and see how that affects the game

ie run it with the hydrophones section deleted from the sim/cfg--

B) run the game without the sim.cfg and edit the AI_sensors.dat to radically weaken the DD sensors untill it balances out?

i'm wondering why on earth the game lists the sim.cfg as an optional file on load up-

[gouldjg]

@CB

I like what you described by the damage and will look into it.

I am also not wanting to go too mad with deviation from original settings as far as the sensors issue is concerned but have a feeling we can solve this in another way as a last resort.

I say we should set the rudders of all DD so they turn slower. That is oneway of preventing the Uber turn on last 200 mtres should the other attempts fail. This way, we could up the sensor power to be more challenging and thus maybe get the long drawn out attacks and slightly clver DD.

Not too much but enough to make a difference. If I am guessing right, this will automatically make their turn radious wider or at least it could take them that few seconds longer. I swear sometimes that the DD try to spin on a sixpence when you watch their turns anyway so lets start with that.

We need to know what does what here i.e.:-

Drag_rudder =0.03 so do we lower or higher this number?

Prop fact_rudder = 0.05 what does this do?

I would suggest we do not dwell too long on the innconsistencies of sensors for the moment and focus on getting as close as possible without doing too much work and all getting niffed off. The more we look into the game, the more we want to change something and this can result in you doing sombody elses job on a near enough full time basis. I will not get too tied down anymore and once I get a better behaved DD, I am wrapping up all my little projects and then chilling out to play for once rather than test test test.

Concerning Damage.

It is possible to do what you state in a number of ways and maybe soon we can all have a different choice. i am wighing up the pro's and con's for each and then will build it.

I used to add ammo etc to compartments and set a critical chance. I bet if I left the armour to 0 or 5, I could have it so a ramming can leave sub with mass destroyed items and flooding.

The crew protection and HP can be set also. The only possible drawback could be the flooding issue will become redundant due to uber hull inegrity.

I will check it out.

Coll777

Hello there fellow Manc (what part? South, north east or west?) Radcliffe here.

Good find and hopefully a possible remedy is in store.

Back to testing again :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Col7777]

@gouldjg, South Manchester near the airport.

On topic, I went in that U505 mission and moved the player sub further away to see what would happen.
I was detected straight away, I dove further down and rigged for silent, I got attacked by an aircraft that gave my position away, so I altered course, 2 DD's came straight for me and I got the hedge-hogs plus DC's, badly damaged I dive further down but it was too late, heavy flooding, below crush depth, Aagh!
I was being pinged all the time btw.

[gouldjg]

I may just remove the Hydrophone settings in the sim.cfg and see if anything good happens.

I will be right back after hitting happy times & other missions at flank to see if the DD can hear me before the actives kick in.


After that, I am setting all back to default and then trying the DD rudder settings to match the sub or maybe 0.025 rather than 0.03.

I still do not really understand the DC presision setting though

I have set it to 50 and get a third of DC exploding at 20 mtres when I am at 100. The others come close though so what exactly is this number doing.

If I set it past 50, there is the chance that DD blows its own back off yet still DC will reach my depth. I do notice though that only certain ammount will explode at my depth. It is cool when not in ecternal view as it all sounds so intence with long gaps between explosions.

I am going to set hedgehogs to 100+ incremental and see if there is any difference in behaviour.

On last mission, I got my rudder blown off, so was in a bit of a rut as far as testing manouvers.

[Redwine]

I am not sure, but depth precision is souposed to be the precision of the DDs sensor in to determine your depth.

I use 25 from many months ago, so the original setting of 5 is too much precision.

Any way, DDs do not launch all depth charges at same depth.

In example if you are runing at 100m, their sensor will determine your depth between 75 and 125, and launch depth charges asumming in example 80.

But if for a normal launch at 80, they launch some ones from +/- 20m anyway they will be able to hit you.

I tested with higer values, and anyway they are able to hit you, then decide to set an aceptable value of 25.

[gouldjg]

Cheers for info Redwine

I was hoping it was some form of error figure and was about to set hedgehog to 300 explode depth and 200 presision in hope for some duds.

Anyway Back on topic.

I had my first crash ever with thins game and I do suspect it is bacause I left out sim.cfg all together.

What can I say.

The bloody things were absolutely uber. I could not and I mean NOT break free from being hunted.

This was great as the DC seem to be on my side lately.


Another possible side effect though quite humerous is below. Half the planes were not in the shot, neither were half the DD's :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: I spent twenty minutes trying to break lock untill game crashed. Maybe crash was something other than this but it is too risky for me. Still it proves some good points.



So for me, the renaming is a no, no. But does this mean we are lost. I think not. It just goes to show how much effect the sim.cfg can have in the game.


Well guys, what do we do next?

I am personally going to tweak the sim.cfg hydrophone settings and maybe even remove them.

I do not want uber vision which is what I got lol.

I do not want uber sonar which is what I got.

I do want a good hydrophone though. I have a funny feeling that the water is messing it up to much due to settings. Maybe it was sensitivity all the way.


My final resort is to change all DD to elite and veteren only as well as tweaking the turn of DD so it is more delayed than present.

I personally think I am slowly getting satisfied for my own benefits of playability, what about you guys.

Any ideas?????

[Redwine]

I am not sure about what i had done, but i set all sensivity values into AI-Sensors.dat to zero.

The long hexe number looks as a secuence of many numbers :hmm: , about 5 or 6, what about if they are a secuence of diferent sensivities, aplies by random ? :hmm:

I just putt them all to zero. what can we lose ? :rotfl:
I used the TT File Analyzer to edit the file, and put all secuence with all zeros.

I use the original Sim.cfg, and my AI_Sensors.dat with sensivity zero, and with reduced search beams.

Well, run the U-505 mission with the Sim.cfg original, and .......

........ no visual or radar trigger needed.

Above 1/3 they hear me, and start pninging for me, y was able to shoot the carrier and evade 4 of 5 escorts, finally the number 5 kills me, but in time compresion and ahead flank speed attempting to scape.

Any way they still good to detect me at silent running, but original Sim.cfg as sensivity 0.03 in both sensors, i need to do more tests reducing the sensibility in Sim.cfg.

[Col7777]

This is weird, I see some of you can't run with the sim.cfg renamed and now Red has changed a few things and he has good results also.
I just run another mission, I just place the U-boat in grid AM53 and sailed, I got detected by 5 dive bombers, I manged to evade them, then I got a contact of a DD but he was a long way off, he did head in my direction but I dove and went silent he kept coming but eventually I must have lost him.
Then I got a lone merchant, I kept a 15mts till I was close, the moment my scope went up I was detected, he fired straight away and damn close too, I did the same and lowered the scope, I scored a hit.
But back to the renaming of the sim.cfg, my game runs fine like this, the only mods I have is Serge's AI U-boats and a couple of new ships plus the 1.4 patch.

I renamed the sim.cfg to zzsim.cfg, thus keeping the name in case I want to go back.

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by Col7777

This is weird, I see some of you can't run with the sim.cfg renamed and now Red has changed a few things and he has good results also.

Not so good enought, i still having aleatory, random results.

Before, they never detect me if i do not give them a trigger as visual or radar contact.

Now they detect me some times just after start up the mission (U-505), and some times not.

Well. it is astep forward for me, but not enought, they never detect me when submerged before....... now they do it, but only some times, we need to stop that random behavior.

I am near to finish with a psiquiatrician

[Marhkimov]

I recommend that when you guys make backup copies of files, that you do NOT leave them in their original folder.

Sometimes, renaming a file will not stop SH3 from calling upon that file. For instance, in the library folder, I had two files: cameras.dat and copy of cameras.dat. The copy was meant to be my backup, and I made all of my tweeks in camera.dat, but SH3 was still pulling values from my backup copy.

So just FYI, be safe and remove your backup copies from their original folders.

[Redwine]

Originally Posted by marhkimov

I recommend that when you guys make backup copies of files, that you do NOT leave them in their original folder.

Sometimes, renaming a file will not stop SH3 from calling upon that file. For instance, in the library folder, I had two files: cameras.dat and copy of cameras.dat. The copy was meant to be my backup, and I made all of my tweeks in camera.dat, but SH3 was still pulling values from my backup copy.

So just FYI, be safe and remove your backup copies from their original folders.

I cant believe

Thanks Marhkimov

[gouldjg]

CB & Redwine

I have been looking into the hydrophone issue and think this is what is failing this game. (probably just getting niffed off now and going round in circles but I want to wrap this up soon before my head explodes).

I set up happy times mission but lined myself to face oncomming DD's.

I had already nerfed hydrophone so was expecting to be picked at 4-5 thousand metres as they approached face on.

The bloody things just kept ignoring me untill I went standard and peri depth and they was 1500 mtres away. Maybe due to sensitivety being set at 0.03 the hydro is only one third effective. Maybe it is just screwed up totally. It is just too easy to approach at the moment and it is all doing my head right in.

Before I triple all hydro settings, is there anything i should know or any suggestions you think may help on this. Have you guys already tried this?. Is it me or is the Hydro actually useless, kaput, broke knackered, screwed up etc etc .

I just have a nagging hunch we need to triple the max ranges in all the sensor.dat entries for each piece of passive equipment to compensate for the nerfs added to sim.cfg or the sensor.dat.



p.s. I set it so mission did not have crew rating as CB advised.

Are we sure this still has any effect as I still get random behaviour like before I changed?.

p.p.s. has anyone contacted timetraveler to seek help with the hex problem we are facing. I know he has tackled similar because I looked at the rudder settings and these too are long hex numbers.

[Col7777]

Well I continued the mission, I eventually got a convoy, this was what I was waiting for.
I was at 15mts running silent and was heading for the convoy, I went to external camera and saw the smoke, as it got nearer I went red, I was detected, it was too far for me to have been detected.
A DD came after me, luckily I got him first then I closed on the convoy, I was still red (detected). then another DD came then another, they both hounded me to DEATH.

So I think renaming the Sim.cfg is too much, I'm thinking it is there now to calm things down a bit, but it was exciting.

[CB..]

on the hydrophone ranges i allready tried setting all the sensors to a mxmum range of 40,000 metres a little time ago and it didn't make a jot of difference---perhaps marknimov said about not keeping a back up the files in the same folder is right (sounds wierd but it may a some sort of anti-cheat thing intended to stop tweaking for multi-player games?)


im experimenting with adding some entrys to the sim.cfg in attempt to calm down the extreme uber effect of removing the hydrophone section from the sim.cfg

i just tried this

[Hydrophone]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]


same as col said really got detect an insane distance away and was attacked non stop for over a hour--- the DD's were interesting to watch tho--- i stayed in the control room most of the time to absorb the gameplay a bit and try to enjoy myself for a while--

after a while of non stop but not deadly DC attacks
i had a check via the external camera and blow me if the original two DD's were gone and a lone corvette had taken over the job without me noticing lol!!! that kept going untill it ran out of DC's (it just stopped dropping them but carried on making runs over me anyway---)

so i must have lost the first two DD's (?) and got detected by the corvette unless the DD's really do take shifts?

was in a bad situation any way because the first dc attack nearly blew the sern of the boat and destroyed both rudders -so all i could do was go deep and slow - (i couldn't steer the boat)
i abandoned the mission eventually because the corvette was showing no signs of getting bored or of finding any more DC's to drop LOL!! there's only so much of that you can take without going mad

strangest thing was immediately after each and every DC drop i got the we have been detected message suggesting that just fro a second the DC's actually did block out the sensors but only for one or two seconds--


i'm hoping adding other entrys to hydrophone section one by one might slowly bring the DD's back into a reasonable level of competence--

so i'm going to try this next

[Hydrophone]
Detection time=60 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]