CHESS: Subsim team versus Letum

[UnderseaLcpl]

If black moves h7-h6 white will respond with bg5xe7. Not good.

Similarly, black Qd8-d6 will probably result in white Nd5xe7, not good.


However, I planned on white attempting Nc3xd5. To avoid any nasty surprises involving attacks on black's king and queen, I think Be7xg5 should be the next move. A bishop for a bishop, and black is poised to take the white queen.




Be7xg5, pending

Thoughts?

[porphy]

I think Be7xg5 should be the next move. A bishop for a bishop, and black is poised to take the white queen.

If you think about the move f4 directly after the exchange, it is to late. The queen will not be trapped after the exchange. When white recaptures the bishop a new square will be free and will serve as a nice escape route. And the White queens position is actually good on the now weak black kingside. Black has to think, as a start, about the white queen moving to h5+ or the knight to f6+.

10 ..., Be7xg5
11 h4xg5, f4
12 Qh4, perhaps h7-h5


If white is careful to avoid any surprises at the e3 square from the knight, he will soon have many possibilities to exchange pieces and be on top of things, as the black attack loses momentum and leaves him pawns behind.

Looks like black has to take action at once with 10 ..., f5-f4. A move that still holds some nice possibilities for black.

cheers Porphy

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by baggygreen

Im a bit lost i think sky.. how does H6 make black lose a piece with no gain? the bishop can either take the pawn, and subsequently be taken by the rook, or he must retreat - and retreat quite a way, given the positions in the centre of the board...?

Im probably missing something very very obvious

The killing score is +2 for White: 2 pawns versus none, currently. After h6, there is some enforced exchnage of material that shifts the balance to Black'S disadvantage.

10... h6?? 11 Be7: f4 12 bd8: fg3: 13 Bc7: Sf2:+ 14 Kd2 Sc6


(if 14 ... Nh1:? then 15 Be5:! O-O 16 Bd4:





and the killing score is +4 for White (9:5) - 1 bishop + 1 knight + 3 pawns vesus 1 rook, and by first glance I would say White's position offers the better chances, even more since after White Nf3 that black knight at h1 is in trouble and probbaly only can be exchnaged at cost of loosing the püawn at g3 as well, while the White pawn structure is secured. )


15 Rh3 Nh3: 16 gh3:



The killing score is +3 for White (8:5) - 1 bishop + 1 knight + 2 pawns versus 1 rook. White seems to have more active play.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by porphy

If you think about the move f4 directly after the exchange, it is to late. The queen will not be trapped after the exchange. When white recaptures the bishop a new square will be free and will serve as a nice escape route. And the White queens position is actually good on the now weak black kingside. Black has to think, as a start, about the white queen moving to h5+ or the knight to f6+.

10 ..., Be7xg5
11 h4xg5, f4
12 Qh4, perhaps h7-h5


If white is careful to avoid any surprises at the e3 square from the knight, he will soon have many possibilities to exchange pieces and be on top of things, as the black attack loses momentum and leaves him pawns behind.

Looks like black has to take action at once with 10 ..., f5-f4. A move that still holds some nice possibilities for black.

cheers Porphy

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by porphy

If you think about the move f4 directly after the exchange, it is to late. The queen will not be trapped after the exchange. When white recaptures the bishop a new square will be free and will serve as a nice escape route.........

Looks like black has to take action at once with 10 ..., f5-f4. A move that still holds some nice possibilities for black.

cheers Porphy

It would seem I made an error somewhere, because I can't replicate the position I thought I would have for be7xg5.


Very well. I add my vote to Porphy's and sky's so the official move is f5-f4


White 10. Nc3xd5
Black 10. f5-f4

[Skybird]

Nasty little move. Fies - aber gut!





But I admit I start to lose overview.

Any idea what to do with your king next time you get a chance, Lance?

[Letum]

Nd5xf4

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Letum

moved

Ah.

[Letum]

moved

[Skybird]

Now this needs exact calculation again. A good board oversight might help in avoiding to miss something, so...:

After White 11 Sd5xf4

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Any idea what to do with your king next time you get a chance, Lance?

Do you think now is the time for castling? I do.

0-0, pending

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

0-0, pending

"Holy cow...!!!"

[UnderseaLcpl]

oh, f2-f3, right.


e5xf4, i guess?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

oh, f2-f3, right.


e5xf4, i guess?

Guessing something is fine. Having a reason for something is better.

What are White's options? What are his threats? Obviously their are several possible ways for exchnages in the next moves. Calculate them. Your king stands almost naked. Where are your weanesses? Where are your strengths? Currently you are behind in the material bilance. If you consider yourself to have compensation for that, what is it? Can the advantage be exploited?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Skybird

What are White's options? What are his threats? Obviously their are several possible ways for exchnages in the next moves. Calculate them. Your king stands almost naked. Where are your weanesses? Where are your strengths? Currently you are behind in the material bilance. If you consider yourself to have compensation for that, what is it? Can the advantage be exploited?

Well, white's queen is boxed in, and his next move will will probably be bg5xf4 if he wants to keep her. Doing that could give him leverage against the black queen sometime in the future, maybe. His pawns give him a powerful defensive advantage, but black has the advantage in mobility and redployment with his side being less cluttered, and white is less one knight.

However, the black knights are in a precarious position that has only been maintained by sacrificing pawns, which we are fresh out of at the moment.
Should either of them be displaced, white's queen will regain some mobility.
As you said, the king is exposed, and I don't quite know what to think of that.

If white does use bg5xe4 as his next move, black might respond with Rh8-g8, since I do expect white to move that f2 pawn soon. Rh8-g8 will at least keep the white queen in that corner once Black withdraws his g4 knight to f6.




btw, sky, you really threw me off by mentioning the king. I'm sure you were talking about castling, but when?..........


Ok that's as far as I got before I saw something . I'm almost afraid to ask but, be7xg5?

It seems like white would have move his knight to h3 or h5 after my queen ends up on g5, probably h3........

and I don't know after that. I don't want to take it any further because I've been a poor judge of white's impending moves thus far.

If I think about it too much, I just make errors or get lost.