Huge pro-EU rally grips Ukraine

Skybird by his nature should just feed the birds and water flowers, instead bubbling around the things he's not familiar with =]

[Oberon]

In regards to the picture from that Daily Mail article:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Maybe they were not dumb (or incompetent, as Russian troops do not carry their normal military documents into the combat missions, even on home soil), but the information itself is faulty?

Maybe, maybe, ask God I bet he knows the answer..

Originally Posted by Oberon

Despite my great-grandparents being from your neck of the woods, I am a bit too far west to get to Ukraine in any affordable matter, plus my combat skills are next to non-existent and I would likely be either assigned to guard Pripyat or returned to sender.

My request for proof though is related to your claim of service in Ukraine, as opposed to proof of Russians in Ukraine which is a discussion I've already been through in this thread about four hundred times.

You know, it's always better to see things once, than to hear a thousand times about it =]

[kranz]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

So why would those allegedly Russian troops,

there are no alleged Russian troops. They ARE russian troops. I already posted a youtube vid confirming that a couple of posts ago - you just decided to disregard it and preferred to stay in your sick and imaginative world of peaceful russia.

@Tribesman
Poland, to some extent, participated in partitioning Czechoslovakia.
My example was good, but as usual - you have to both re-read and re-think the stuff you quote.

@Oberon
stop trolling.

@sailor_X
ikalguin is not worth your time here. I tried to argue with him - he either doesn't reply to facts presented or just repeats his BS about 'ukrainian terrorists'.

[ikalugin]

ukrainian terrorists

Where did I use that term?

there are no alleged Russian troops. They ARE russian troops. I already posted a youtube vid confirming that a couple of posts ago - you just decided to disregard it and preferred to stay in your sick and imaginative world of peaceful russia.

Where?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by sailor_X

You know, it's always better to see things once, than to hear a thousand times about it =]

True, but to quote an old adage "Trust, but verify".

Originally Posted by Oberon

True, but to quote an old adage "Trust, but verify".

Knowledge is a weapon, if you have it, no verification is required.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by sailor_X

Knowledge is a weapon, if you have it, no verification is required.

Knowledge is power, but what use is power if no-one knows that you have it? Nor are prepared to use it?

[Skybird]

The airliner in the photo has two engines and it looks like a long body if judging that against the form of the wings. It seems to be a long plane, with twin-engine configuration - and that matches indeed the shape of a 777 that the downed MA17 has been.

The body length of a 777 is 63-73 meters, depending on specific model. If measuring the length of the airliner versus the distance between the fighter and the airliner, I find the distance to be around 9.5x the length of the airliner. Calculating with a airliner length of 70 meters, the shooting distance then is around 660 meters. That is the range for an infrared-guided short range AAM.

The pilot must have had visual contact then. At same altitude, he probably could not see the engine configuration, could not see whether there were two or four engines, the silhouette would allowed to see that if being at a higher or lower altitude, maybe. Maybe the pilot got an idea of the colour scheme, however.

And here we are at that old scenario again that was described as a possibility some weeks earlier - that maybe it was an intentional Ukrainian attack against the presidential Russian machine, an IL-96 with 4 engines. As I earlier showed, the colours schemes are anything but impossible to be mistaken.



Examination of this satellite image is needed. Trust in official Western sources is not justified - they are propaganda tools like Ukrainian and Russian official channels as well.

Note that the blue-red lines on both airlines are ABOVE the height level of wings and engines, they are not being partially blocked by the engines if looking at the planes from same altitude or slightly elevated position. I think for a pilot in that situation, that hprizonmtal line acros the full length of the main body served as a main hint for the pilot to identity the "Russian presidential plane".

The closest picture of what I could find in youtube during my brief duty was about there:

We were fighting in fields back then, covering the advance of Azov batallion I was armed with light machine gun and a Glock pistol. During day time we were advancing, but at night we had to take cover in trenches or underground shelters, because of heavy firing of prorussian forces. Every day was like an eternity. But there I was, fighting along Ukrainian forces in fields and long grass. I can't tell if I killed somebody during my firinings to enemy, because of great distance, but I'm glad that I survived it. The war itself is a crazy thing, but it is what it is.

Originally Posted by Oberon

Knowledge is power, but what use is power if no-one knows that you have it? Nor are prepared to use it?

For enemy is better to know that you have no power, but surprise them is always a pleasure =]

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by sailor_X

The closest picture of what I could find in youtube during my brief duty was about there:

We were fighting in fields back then, covering the advance of Azov batallion I was armed with light machine gun and a Glock pistol. During day time we were advancing, but at night we had to take cover in trenches or underground shelters, because of heavy firing of prorussian forces. Every day was like an eternity. But there I was, fighting along Ukrainian forces in fields and long grass. I can't tell if I killed somebody during my firinings to enemy, because of great distance, but I'm glad that I survived it. The war itself is a crazy thing, but it is what it is.

So no proofs?

[Sailor Steve]

I've been asked to lock this thread. For reasons of my own I'm not going to do that right now. Of course in just one day it has grown by four pages, none of them really going anywhere. I will say this though.

Originally Posted by sailor_X

... are you dumb or what ?

We would prefer if you could argue without calling people names, or making demeaning comments without furthering the discussion.

Originally Posted by sailor_X

I was not a camera man there, so stop asking me about proofs I will be no capable to show you.

If you want to talk about your belief in something, that's fine. Do not, however, make claims without having proof ready to hand. If you claim it, you are expected to prove it. Otherwise it is just rumor.

Originally Posted by sailor_X

hatered will get you killed, sadly I don't care =]

This sounds very much like a threat. Also posting in anger and then accusing the other person of hatred is not a good idea.

Originally Posted by sailor_X

Skybird by his nature should just feed the birds and water flowers, instead bubbling around the things he's not familiar with

Suggesting what another member "should" or "shouldn't" do is also not something we approve of here. If you can disprove his arguments, do so. If not, don't tell others not to post.

Originally Posted by sailor_X

Knowledge is a weapon, if you have it, no verification is required.

Maybe you think you know something, but we do not. If you can't verify it then it is only your opinion. That is fine, but if you claim something is fact you are expected to verify the facts, or else say that it is only your opinion.

Originally Posted by kranz

there are no alleged Russian troops. They ARE russian troops. I already posted a youtube vid confirming that a couple of posts ago

This is fine.

your sick and imaginative world of peaceful russia.

This is not.

@Oberon
stop trolling.

Do you consider what he wrote to be trolling? If so, please report his post. Otherwise read my above statement concerning telling others what they can or cannot say here.

@sailor_X
ikalguin is not worth your time here. I tried to argue with him - he either doesn't reply to facts presented or just repeats his BS about 'ukrainian terrorists'.

This is something better said in private. Saying it publically comes under the heading of comments intentionally designed to provoke.

It would be nice if future comments from all sides would be contained to the argument itself. That's as polite a warning as I know how to give.

[ikalugin]

That's as polite a warning as I know how to give.

Thanks

Speaking for myself, I would redouble my efforts to uphold the posting standards of this forum.