bomb in oslo

[Oberon]

For once, we agree. They are both driven by their twisted version of 'justice', be they Muslim, Christian, Left or Right wing...it's got nothing to do with what religion or political leanings they have.

Sometimes I wonder how the internet has affected things in terms of the spread of radical views and the influence on those who are prepared to take things one step further.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Sometimes I wonder how the internet has affected things in terms of the spread of radical views and the influence on those who are prepared to take things one step further.

Probably the same thing it's done for any group with fringe beliefs on the internet. They discover there are like-minded fanatics out there. They develop a warped sense of community feeding off each others worst fears and beliefs and go to great pains to shut any dissenting views out.

[Foxtrot]

He looks like a character from warlock movies

[Skybird]

He has done no good service to people being critical of Islam and multiculuralism and the EU. When somebody now criticises Europe for becoming more Islamic and ignoring unwanted harsh realities about Muslim migration, he now will be confronted with "You like what happened in Utoya, eh? Want to kill them all, right? You are a potential massmurder yourself, you just don'T have the guts to do it, what?" Islam-critics already get brandmarked as insanes, as Islamophobes, as Nazis, to gag them in advance and not needing to deal with their arguments. Now they will be called potential massmurderers as well.

Great. What he did, in the longer run will help the left and Islam and the EU. Exactly the opposite of what he wanted to acchieve.

[Safe-Keeper]

As for the prison sentence...

21 years is a very, very, very long time. I'm 25, turning 26 in October, so basically that's my entire life. Just the idea of spending that long in prison is terrifying to me. This guy is 32, so if he was to spend 21 years locked away, he'd be 53 when he was finally let out. That's basically half his life gone. Considering he was a social failure who lived at home with his mother, I don't think he's got too many prior achievements to speak off, and now he won't be able to make too many more. He'll spend the next quarter of a century in prison as public enemy number one, surrounded by people who want him dead, and he will probably never, ever feel safe out on the streets again.

But the bottom line is, we're Norwegians. We don't throw people in jail to satisfy people with an axe to grind. We lock them away because they're a threat to themselves or others, or when they've committed a crime and need to be punished and rehabilitated. As the Prime Minister said, no one can bomb or shoot us from being Norway.

Even when he's served his sentence, he'll remain behind bars for as long as we deem him a threat to society. He'll never hurt a single person again, except perhaps himself.

If that doesn't satisfy your bloodlust sufficiently, pity. We're not doing it for you.

Don't know about Norway, but in Germany, extremely dangerous offenders, usually sex offenders, also offenders with mental diseases like sociopathy, could serve their prison penalty and afterwards being brought into a closed, prison-like facility for something that is called "Sicherheitsverwahrung" over here.

We've got the same system. We call it forvaring, which seems to mean something like, well, safe-keeping (best I could think of). It's worse than prison in that you never know for how long you will remain in there. Could be five years, could be fifty. I imagine the security at those facilities is far higher, too.

He has done no good service to people being critical of Islam and multiculuralism and the EU. When somebody now criticises Europe for becoming more Islamic and ignoring unwanted harsh realities about Muslim migration, he now will be confronted with "You like what happened in Utoya, eh? Want to kill them all, right? You are a potential massmurder yourself, you just don'T have the guts to do it, what?" Islam-critics already get brandmarked as insanes, as Islamophobes, as Nazis, to gag them in advance and not needing to deal with their arguments. Now they will be called potential massmurderers as well.

Great. What he did, in the longer run will help the left and Islam and the EU. Exactly the opposite of what he wanted to acchieve.

My heart bleeds for you.

[BossMark]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

As for the prison sentence...

21 years is a very, very, very long time. I'm 25, turning 26 in October, so basically that's my entire life. Just the idea of spending that long in prison is terrifying to me. This guy is 32, so if he was to spend 21 years locked away, he'd be 53 when he was finally let out. That's basically half his life gone. Considering he was a social failure who lived at home with his mother, I don't think he's got too many prior achievements to speak off, and now he won't be able to make too many more. He'll spend the next quarter of a century in prison as public enemy number one, surrounded by people who want him dead, and he will probably never, ever feel safe out on the streets again.

But the bottom line is, we're Norwegians. We don't throw people in jail to satisfy people with an axe to grind. We lock them away because they're a threat to themselves or others, or when they've committed a crime and need to be punished and rehabilitated. As the Prime Minister said, no one can bomb or shoot us from being Norway.

Even when he's served his sentence, he'll remain behind bars for as long as we deem him a threat to society. He'll never hurt a single person again, except perhaps himself.

If that doesn't satisfy your bloodlust sufficiently, pity. We're not doing it for you.

Nice post and very well put

[Hottentot]

For what it's worth: flags in here have been raised halfway to the pole and at least some of the biggest cities (including my own) are having a mourning moment with candles being brought to the centres. I wish we could do more.

[Penguin]

worth quoting:

Det er et budskap fra hele Norge:
Dere skal ikke få ødelegge oss.
Dere skal ikke få ødelegge vårt demokrati og vårt engasjement for en bedre verden.
Vi er en liten nasjon, men vi er en stolt nasjon.
Ingen skal få bombe oss til taushet.
Ingen skal få skyte oss til taushet.
Ingen skal noensinne få skremme oss fra å være Norge.
[...]
I morgen skal vi vise verden at det norske demokratiet blir sterkere når det gjelder.


This is a message from whole Norway.
You will not destroy us.
You will not destroy our democracy and commitment for a better world.
We are a little nation, but we are a proud nation.
Nobody will bomb us into silence.
Nobody will shoot us into silence.
Nobody will ever scare us from being Norway.
We will show the world that the norwegian democracy becomes stronger when it's deemed to be.

(translation by me)

Frankly I don't know much about Stoltenberg's politics, but hats off to these good words. As I am sucker for original sources I looked for Stoltenberg's speech on norway.no. When searching for the name of the prime minister 0 hits. However a link to the official government site. This I found very sympathetic. On this site I found literally all informations about proposals, press papers, basically all the government works on, all with one click - we all know that sadly they have more important things to do than updating a webpage. I just write this as an example of one of the little things why I think Norway is a well working democracy when I compare to a banana republic like Germany.

I liked that Stoltenberg said he wants to try more democracy, however less naivety. I am happy that he did not propose a patriot-act.no. In Germany we already have the agitators, who call for more surveillance and less citizens rights. I have stomach aches when I think about the political consequences if a tragedy like this would happen here...

So my respect as well as my deeply felt condolences go to the Norwegian public, who defend their democracy and who did not storm onto the streets and beat down the next guy who looks like a terrorist - however one may look like.
Glad to have you as our 2-doors away neighbor - stay as you are!


@Spoon 11th:
I would find it more appropriate to the victims, if you refrain from posting propaganda from the lunatic here, a link to the picture would be sufficient.
If someone is interested in the guy's mindset, the wiki article about him has enough links to reading material.
Cheers & thanks!

[Safe-Keeper]

I couldn't find a subtitled version of his speech, but here is one with a running translation.



This is what Norway is all about. Beautiful.

He has done no good service to people being critical of Islam and multiculuralism and the EU

Some people just can't make the connection

My heart bleeds for you.

Safe-Keeper, I wish I had your restraint

Sometimes I wonder how the internet has affected things in terms of the spread of radical views and the influence on those who are prepared to take things one step further.

It is a major factor, not only for race or religiously bigoted scum but also for "causeless" crazies.

[Safe-Keeper]

There's a certain hilarious irony in that the original reaction from so many was so anti-immigrant and anti-Islamic, to the nature of "this is what happens when we let that kind of people into our countries!"... and then it turned out the perp was a right-wing, anti-immigrant islamophobe.

The delete buttons ran hot on certain peoples' computers on that day.

[Hottentot]

Well, it wasn't a Buddhist.

[Safe-Keeper]

Not this time, no. But you just know it won't be long before they pull something again, the scheming *******s.
:p

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think what Vendor is trying to say is that in the justice system he can only receive 21 years, but I think that in prison he may last a lot less...and in fact may make use of his shoelaces...or someone else will make use of them for him. If he is still alive after 21 years then he'll probably be put somewhere secure for his own protection rather than for others.

You don't become the biggest mass murderer in Norwegian history and just walk away...of that I am sure.

If I understand correctly, childkillers don't last long in general population -- at least here in the States. I guess we could cross our fingers and hope he doesn't get segregated out 'for his own safety'.

http://kotaku.com/5824147/oslo-terro...craft-as-cover
Great, here comes the Anti-Gaming crusade.

(Though Modern Warfare 2? Seriously? That game is terrible, how can you even use it as simulation?)