bomb in oslo

[Oberon]

I think what Vendor is trying to say is that in the justice system he can only receive 21 years, but I think that in prison he may last a lot less...and in fact may make use of his shoelaces...or someone else will make use of them for him. If he is still alive after 21 years then he'll probably be put somewhere secure for his own protection rather than for others.

You don't become the biggest mass murderer in Norwegian history and just walk away...of that I am sure.

[Oberon]

I think we're going to see a lot more of what Spoon has posted springing up, I can't say I'm surprised that this has happened, surprised where it happened, and saddened by it...but not entirely surprised. We have been in an ideological war since 9/11. Nutters on both sides have been at it and unfortunately it is the ordinary folk that get caught in the crossfire.

I think we're going to see a lot more of what Spoon has posted springing up

Nothing new, look at that murdering prick Copeland and his loony rants, exactly the same crap as this idiot wrote, he too saw nothing wrong with what he was doing.

We have been in an ideological war since 9/11

It goes back way before then.

Nutters on both sides have been at it and unfortunately it is the ordinary folk that get caught in the crossfire.

No, the nutters are on the same side even though they "think" they are opposites. there is no real difference between jihadi nuts and christian identity scum..they are all just sick murdering bastards with twisted minds.

[Oberon]

For once, we agree. They are both driven by their twisted version of 'justice', be they Muslim, Christian, Left or Right wing...it's got nothing to do with what religion or political leanings they have.

Sometimes I wonder how the internet has affected things in terms of the spread of radical views and the influence on those who are prepared to take things one step further.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Sometimes I wonder how the internet has affected things in terms of the spread of radical views and the influence on those who are prepared to take things one step further.

Probably the same thing it's done for any group with fringe beliefs on the internet. They discover there are like-minded fanatics out there. They develop a warped sense of community feeding off each others worst fears and beliefs and go to great pains to shut any dissenting views out.

[Skybird]

He has done no good service to people being critical of Islam and multiculuralism and the EU. When somebody now criticises Europe for becoming more Islamic and ignoring unwanted harsh realities about Muslim migration, he now will be confronted with "You like what happened in Utoya, eh? Want to kill them all, right? You are a potential massmurder yourself, you just don'T have the guts to do it, what?" Islam-critics already get brandmarked as insanes, as Islamophobes, as Nazis, to gag them in advance and not needing to deal with their arguments. Now they will be called potential massmurderers as well.

Great. What he did, in the longer run will help the left and Islam and the EU. Exactly the opposite of what he wanted to acchieve.

[Safe-Keeper]

As for the prison sentence...

21 years is a very, very, very long time. I'm 25, turning 26 in October, so basically that's my entire life. Just the idea of spending that long in prison is terrifying to me. This guy is 32, so if he was to spend 21 years locked away, he'd be 53 when he was finally let out. That's basically half his life gone. Considering he was a social failure who lived at home with his mother, I don't think he's got too many prior achievements to speak off, and now he won't be able to make too many more. He'll spend the next quarter of a century in prison as public enemy number one, surrounded by people who want him dead, and he will probably never, ever feel safe out on the streets again.

But the bottom line is, we're Norwegians. We don't throw people in jail to satisfy people with an axe to grind. We lock them away because they're a threat to themselves or others, or when they've committed a crime and need to be punished and rehabilitated. As the Prime Minister said, no one can bomb or shoot us from being Norway.

Even when he's served his sentence, he'll remain behind bars for as long as we deem him a threat to society. He'll never hurt a single person again, except perhaps himself.

If that doesn't satisfy your bloodlust sufficiently, pity. We're not doing it for you.

Don't know about Norway, but in Germany, extremely dangerous offenders, usually sex offenders, also offenders with mental diseases like sociopathy, could serve their prison penalty and afterwards being brought into a closed, prison-like facility for something that is called "Sicherheitsverwahrung" over here.

We've got the same system. We call it forvaring, which seems to mean something like, well, safe-keeping (best I could think of). It's worse than prison in that you never know for how long you will remain in there. Could be five years, could be fifty. I imagine the security at those facilities is far higher, too.

He has done no good service to people being critical of Islam and multiculuralism and the EU. When somebody now criticises Europe for becoming more Islamic and ignoring unwanted harsh realities about Muslim migration, he now will be confronted with "You like what happened in Utoya, eh? Want to kill them all, right? You are a potential massmurder yourself, you just don'T have the guts to do it, what?" Islam-critics already get brandmarked as insanes, as Islamophobes, as Nazis, to gag them in advance and not needing to deal with their arguments. Now they will be called potential massmurderers as well.

Great. What he did, in the longer run will help the left and Islam and the EU. Exactly the opposite of what he wanted to acchieve.

My heart bleeds for you.

[Penguin]

worth quoting:

Det er et budskap fra hele Norge:
Dere skal ikke få ødelegge oss.
Dere skal ikke få ødelegge vårt demokrati og vårt engasjement for en bedre verden.
Vi er en liten nasjon, men vi er en stolt nasjon.
Ingen skal få bombe oss til taushet.
Ingen skal få skyte oss til taushet.
Ingen skal noensinne få skremme oss fra å være Norge.
[...]
I morgen skal vi vise verden at det norske demokratiet blir sterkere når det gjelder.


This is a message from whole Norway.
You will not destroy us.
You will not destroy our democracy and commitment for a better world.
We are a little nation, but we are a proud nation.
Nobody will bomb us into silence.
Nobody will shoot us into silence.
Nobody will ever scare us from being Norway.
We will show the world that the norwegian democracy becomes stronger when it's deemed to be.

(translation by me)

Frankly I don't know much about Stoltenberg's politics, but hats off to these good words. As I am sucker for original sources I looked for Stoltenberg's speech on norway.no. When searching for the name of the prime minister 0 hits. However a link to the official government site. This I found very sympathetic. On this site I found literally all informations about proposals, press papers, basically all the government works on, all with one click - we all know that sadly they have more important things to do than updating a webpage. I just write this as an example of one of the little things why I think Norway is a well working democracy when I compare to a banana republic like Germany.

I liked that Stoltenberg said he wants to try more democracy, however less naivety. I am happy that he did not propose a patriot-act.no. In Germany we already have the agitators, who call for more surveillance and less citizens rights. I have stomach aches when I think about the political consequences if a tragedy like this would happen here...

So my respect as well as my deeply felt condolences go to the Norwegian public, who defend their democracy and who did not storm onto the streets and beat down the next guy who looks like a terrorist - however one may look like.
Glad to have you as our 2-doors away neighbor - stay as you are!


@Spoon 11th:
I would find it more appropriate to the victims, if you refrain from posting propaganda from the lunatic here, a link to the picture would be sufficient.
If someone is interested in the guy's mindset, the wiki article about him has enough links to reading material.
Cheers & thanks!

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think what Vendor is trying to say is that in the justice system he can only receive 21 years, but I think that in prison he may last a lot less...and in fact may make use of his shoelaces...or someone else will make use of them for him. If he is still alive after 21 years then he'll probably be put somewhere secure for his own protection rather than for others.

You don't become the biggest mass murderer in Norwegian history and just walk away...of that I am sure.

If I understand correctly, childkillers don't last long in general population -- at least here in the States. I guess we could cross our fingers and hope he doesn't get segregated out 'for his own safety'.

http://kotaku.com/5824147/oslo-terro...craft-as-cover
Great, here comes the Anti-Gaming crusade.

(Though Modern Warfare 2? Seriously? That game is terrible, how can you even use it as simulation?)

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by Rilder

http://kotaku.com/5824147/oslo-terro...craft-as-cover
Great, here comes the Anti-Gaming crusade.

It is to be expected when things like this happen. DOOM took a lot of heat after Columbine, and there is hardly anything realistic about that game.

When these tragedies happen people always have to stop and ask, "Why do these things happen?". The quest for answers leads in many directions, some more misleading than others. *shrug*

[Flaxpants]

My deepest condolences for all those who have lost loved ones in Norway.
And here's hoping there's no segregation for this guy...

One question I keep hearing reporters asking officials is "Has this man been motivated to do this by right-wing extremist views or his he simply a Madman?"... Is it just me or is this question ridiculous? - He's clearly insane in the sense that he is a danger to society, and in my opinion his personal views are all but irrelevant.

[Oberon]

[Safe-Keeper]

One question I keep hearing reporters asking officials is "Has this man been motivated to do this by right-wing extremist views or his he simply a Madman?"... Is it just me or is this question ridiculous? - He's clearly insane in the sense that he is a danger to society, and in my opinion his personal views are all but irrelevant.

I find this view interesting.

When Muslim organizations shoot people, or blow something up, or carry out acts of sabotage, or call in threats, they're called terrorists. As was the case here.

Then it became clear he's a white, Norwegian, right-wing fundamentalist Christian, and then all of a sudden the act was no longer to be viewed a politically/religiously motivated terrorist act, but just a senseless killing spree by a madman.

Sorry, but this guy wrote a 1500 page book outlining his views. He planned the attack for eight years. If this attack was not a political terrorist act, then neither was 9/11 or Oklahoma or 7/7 or USS Cole.

[andritsos]

just a thought that came from a person near me and made me think a bit about something: if on that island there was a reunion/event of a political party/youth camp , indipendently of which party, it isnt a little bit concerning also having pupils of 14-17 years of age that are take part at an organised political event?( to what extent can they have a clear political opinion , confrontation with other opinions etc withouth being directed?)

PS. I most probably be wrong as i am sorry to say, but I had learned most of it today as i have been to the mountain with few to no use of TV for some days, so if i proove to be wrong or have no-sense just tell me
I understand offcourse that there are more important things to affront but i didnt wanted to forget this question now that remembered it

Is there preventive detention ( or a name in german) legal applicable in Norway?