Clear the Bridge! Dick O'kane method

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

Whoever said, "The inmates are loose and running the asylum" probably got their start here. The infantry is looking better every day....

:rotfl:The way I look at it, if you're still learning, you're not dead yet. My goal is to be not dead yet for quite a long time to come. You're doing great and your posts show you understand what you've learned. You're not just parroting, you're reasoning. That's the mark of success.

[I'm goin' down]

Now he's calling me a parrot! I have to squawk about that one.

[Fish40]

I actually got my first kill the other day useing the DO method! RR great tutorial by the way I got a radar contact at 10nm. I slowed to 1/3 speed and began my first plot. Three minutes later I took another reading and plotted. After determining his course, I got in position 90 degrees to his track and set up the TDC as per the tutorial.

The one thing I have a problem with is getting an acurate speed, which is essential with this method. Since the Radar screen dosn't have range rings, it's hard to determine exact distance between the two plot points, so therefor measuring the distance between the two points will yeild an inaccurate figure. I actually find it a challange to aquire a visual, get an ID, and measure the time it takes for the target to cross the 0 bearing line to determine speed.

Anyway, after I did all that, (target was a Hog Islander by the way) I sat and waited for the target to cross my 10 degree bearing line. I fired three shots: One at the forward crane, one under the stack, and the last at the aft crane. All three shots impacted, but my speed must have been off a hair because the shots hit further aft of their intended AP. She went down about 20 minutes later after slowly flooding

It seems to me, once you have an accurate speed, the rest is sinfully easy!

[I'm goin' down]

The turkey awaits the hatchet, but I could not resist RR's invitation. A fleet without RR at the tip of the spear is like a kid playing with submarines in the bath tub. Unfortunately for the tike, he is now out of baking soda, so the fleet is doomed to sail around aimlessly until the war's end or until dinner is ready. Solution: give him airhog helicopters and tell him hs days as a submariner are finished.

(My crew has spent the morning painting Betty Grable in her bathing suit on the torpedos with a note on the nose cones saying, "Ain't life a blast!)

[pythos]

Wow, that is a variation of the method I have adopted lately, with great success. Plot a course 90 degrees to the targets path, use the TBT on the bridge to get the targets course data get the solution into the TDC with PK on, while moving at full or flank till aprox 3000 yards from the target's course. Then submerge, and go to silent speed, and wait for the target to be called out at 45 to 30 degrees by the hydrophone operator, with a visual check every 5 minutes. At my speed of 1 knot, and the target's usually being 11, the firing point is normally achieved at around 1200 to 1000 yards. When ready to fire I open all the tubes who's torpedo's have had all the deph, pistol and speed setting set. Pop the scope up for final observations, and then turn off the PK. My scope then continues to send bearing info to the tdc. I line up the part of the ship I want to put a fish at, and fire. For large ship I fire at the stern foraward with three fish. For medium, one fish just behind the stack, and one under the stack. For small targets one fish at the stack. Lower the scope and wait.

Mind you, because I play as a captain with a full crew (meaning I have a torpedo plotting team) I have auto tdc selected in gameplay options. So the TDC getting bearing info with the PK off may not be accurate, not sure. I tried manual and found me as captain doing the stuff the plotters would be doing...and sucking at it I wish that there was an options page for auto TDC that would allow you to choose the features you want enabled, such as being able to determine bearing, and range, and have the plotters figure out the speed, and angle on bow along with other items. I figure the plotters could get the angle on bow by determing the target's course in relation to mine, cause I know I can't figure it out with scope observations. Also I would like to disable the triangle with auto TDC on.

But that being said, the method I use seems to work well, unless the target changes course, or sees the steamers headed for them.

[tater]

I've been testing a new escort out, and so I've been trying to get DCed.

As a result, I am watching in external. I've found that I can eyeball using the sub marker on the surface, and hit ~50% of the time at 2-3000 yards just shooting from the hip with no data at all, lol.

[Rockin Robbins]

Sounds like fun tater! I guess you can tell I am a strange mixture of a person who appreciates realism but is always ready to play with the gaming aspects once in awhile.

I don't have any problems leaving my career, loading up a scenario and my subnuclear cuties (I know, not released yet. I've been lazy). Then I play with how close a 30 knot cutie has to come to the target before it will turn to follow. Really you have to come pretty close or it blasts on by.

But that idea sounds like a lot of fun. Are you just going zero gyro and aiming with the arrow on the marker?

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Fish40

The one thing I have a problem with is getting an acurate speed, which is essential with this method. Since the Radar screen dosn't have range rings, it's hard to determine exact distance between the two plot points, so therefor measuring the distance between the two points will yeild an inaccurate figure.

I take it you are running with map contacts off? You could try using my radar range mod, it's in metres, so you'd have to convert it, but it is quite accurate for manual plotting.

[Nisgeis]

Right, just had a quick check of the functional diagram for the TDC to check my facts. There is a very subtle, but very important difference between the real TDC and the in game TDC.

The real TDC has the bearing input crank connected via an adder to the target course (relative tagret course is what the TDC refers to it as, but it's the same as AoB). The in game TDC does not. What this means is that when you adjust the bearing, the target course (AoB) also alters to match. We know from the other explanations about how to get the AoB by drawing it on the map, that the AoB is the angle between the target track and the bearing to your sub. If you can imagine the target moving up and down the target track (like its on a rail) then as the bearing changes, so does the AoB by the exact same amount.

For example, if a target is deads ahead of you at a bearing of 000, steaming a course relative to you of 090, then when the target was at a bearing of 315, the AoB was 45 and when the target will be at a bearing of 045, the AoB will be 135. So that's the maths behind it, the relationship between the AoB and the bearing is a simple addition/subtraction.

The target course is also connected to the range counter by an integrator, so changes in the target's range and course, due to its own movement are taken into account.

What does this mean? It means that with a real TDC, when you hold the bearing you are keeping the course the same and this means that the solution you have is always valid for the point where your scope's aiming wire intersects with the target's course (regardless of where the target is. The target's speed is fed into the gyro angle solver, so the torpedoes will be sent on their way to intersect with the target as long as your speed estimate is correct. You are effectively making the TDC simulate a constant bearing reducing range problem for the aiming point. You are basically on a collision course for your aiming point and the target moves accross the aiming point.

This is all quite confusing and is hard to visualise without a diagram, but the basic principle is that the stern has a different relative course than the bow, when seperately viewed. In game, as the TDC does not change the AoB with a change of bearing, then winding the bearing back will not work accurately, as you'll get a different course. This should only generate a small error however. It's easier to try to visualise this if you imagine an infinitely long target.

Sorry if none of this made any sense.

[Fish40]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

I take it you are running with map contacts off? You could try using my radar range mod, it's in metres, so you'd have to convert it, but it is quite accurate for manual plotting.

I saw your mod Nisgeis, and it looks like it would definitely be useful. I do keep the map contacts off for a more realistic experience. I was wondering if your mod is compatable with the latest RFB:hmm:If is is, I'll be downloading pronto!

[I'm goin' down]

With map contents off, I do not have to worry abouit speed because I never find anything. How do you find a target?, besides by pure luck?

[I'm goin' down]

How do you find a target with map updates off besides by pure luck?:hmm:

[Fish40]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

How do you find a target with map updates off besides by pure luck?:hmm:

Presently my current patrol is in 44', so I have Radar to find my targets. But besides that, if you patrol along known shipping routes you will hit paydirt eventually. Also pay attention to radio messages. There may be info of a convoy or taskforce. And of corse don't forget periodic hydrophone checks, especially if you don't have radar.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by Fish40

I actually got my first kill the other day useing the DO method! RR great tutorial by the way I got a radar contact at 10nm. I slowed to 1/3 speed and began my first plot. Three minutes later I took another reading and plotted. After determining his course, I got in position 90 degrees to his track and set up the TDC as per the tutorial.

The one thing I have a problem with is getting an acurate speed, which is essential with this method. Since the Radar screen dosn't have range rings, it's hard to determine exact distance between the two plot points, so therefor measuring the distance between the two points will yeild an inaccurate figure. I actually find it a challange to aquire a visual, get an ID, and measure the time it takes for the target to cross the 0 bearing line to determine speed.
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It seems to me, once you have an accurate speed, the rest is sinfully easy!

Why are you trying to measure speed on the radar scope anyway?

In your first paragraph you mention that you have acquired the target at 10nm and you plot two points to determine true course (presumably on the navmap). Once you have the TC plotted you should be setting yourself up for a submerged attack on a 90° beam to the target TC.

As you make your submerged approach, the hydrophone operator will call out bearings to the target that you can plot on the TC line. If your TC plot is good, the distance between those points should be plenty accurate enough for a good speed calc.

[XLjedi]

Oh BTW,

My response to the original OP's question would be... In that instance O'Kane was using a lateral spread.

You can do that easily by locking your scope on the target midship and turning that degree offset dial. You'd wait for the middle of the target to reach the desired bearing and then dial: 2° fire, 0° fire, -2° fire

How do I know 2° is right? I just lock on the target midship and then look on the scope to see how many degrees I needed to offset to hit the various parts.

Now in fairness to O'Kane, this method that bears his name is no longer a good reflection of what you and I read in his book. If you want to see how I originally proposed mimicing Okane you can read my post here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=134

RR chose to simplify it. I choose to bash him over the head once in awhile for dumbing it down to the point where the TDC isn't even used!

Also, I don't recall that Okane would necessarily line up on a 90° beam to the target. He took a standard 90° approach to the target bearing, but that's something different. There's more evidence in his books that suggests he (and Morton) preferred to fire after the target passed the 90° beam so the torpedos would 1) not impact at a right angle, and 2) the ship would have a harder time evading (never really studied this one, but I trust Morton knew what he was talking about).