What where the differences between American and German Subs?

tater · 11-14-08, 11:39 AM

The Soviets certainly played a huge role in the defeat of Germany. That said, a huge amount of war materiel used by the Soviets came from... the USA. Almost 60% of their highly refined petroleum products came from the US, for example (can you say "aviation gas?").

Soviet advances would have been far less easy under a virtually unopposed Luftwaffe, even giving "General Winter" his due.

It would be interesting to imagine the vast majority of U-Boats attempting to exclusively interdict tankers for Russia, keeping just enough boats elsewhere so that the allies could not put all ASW assets North. Of course they'd need to have made such a plan, then they'd have needed to shut the hell up about it, and tell the subs to stop using their radios like teenage girls on the phone

Regarding the sub war vs the IJN, this is also important. German subs did effectively no damage to Allied naval capability at all. USN subs, while practicing "unrestricted" warfare, also sank or heavily damaged many significant warships—warships were critical to the IJN's (completely wrong-headed) Mahanian strategy for winning a "decisive battle."

tater · 11-14-08, 11:50 AM

To be clear: All major navies at the start of the war had decent radio direction finding gear, and the doctrine to use it.

We take for granted in the modern world that the use of active sensors is a tool of last resort since they, duh, give your position away completely. It's astounding that submariners that would have NEVER considered banging away with active sonar on patrol, had no problem using the radio, sometimes multiple times per day. Transmissions that could be DFed not just by nearby enemy warships, but by anyone with a shortwave set back on the mainland. Two guys with radios and a protractor, FTW.

Boggles the mind.

11-14-08, 11:39 AM	#1
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The Soviets certainly played a huge role in the defeat of Germany. That said, a huge amount of war materiel used by the Soviets came from... the USA. Almost 60% of their highly refined petroleum products came from the US, for example (can you say "aviation gas?"). Soviet advances would have been far less easy under a virtually unopposed Luftwaffe, even giving "General Winter" his due. It would be interesting to imagine the vast majority of U-Boats attempting to exclusively interdict tankers for Russia, keeping just enough boats elsewhere so that the allies could not put all ASW assets North. Of course they'd need to have made such a plan, then they'd have needed to shut the hell up about it, and tell the subs to stop using their radios like teenage girls on the phone Regarding the sub war vs the IJN, this is also important. German subs did effectively no damage to Allied naval capability at all. USN subs, while practicing "unrestricted" warfare, also sank or heavily damaged many significant warships—warships were critical to the IJN's (completely wrong-headed) Mahanian strategy for winning a "decisive battle." Last edited by tater; 11-14-08 at 11:42 AM.

11-14-08, 11:50 AM	#2
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	To be clear: All major navies at the start of the war had decent radio direction finding gear, and the doctrine to use it. We take for granted in the modern world that the use of active sensors is a tool of last resort since they, duh, give your position away completely. It's astounding that submariners that would have NEVER considered banging away with active sonar on patrol, had no problem using the radio, sometimes multiple times per day. Transmissions that could be DFed not just by nearby enemy warships, but by anyone with a shortwave set back on the mainland. Two guys with radios and a protractor, FTW. Boggles the mind.