"McCain's defeat divides Republicans"

[Quillan]

I would hardly call it a clear mandate. The popular vote was very close (though not nearly as close as Bush/Gore in 2000). It was only the electoral college that was lopsided.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

It amuses me that several people on here think that the GOP lost because it wasn't right-wing enough!

Didn't the US just vote, giving a clear mandate, for one of its most liberal Senators to be the next president?

Doesn't that tell you something about public opinion in the US at the moment?

I don't see the logic;.......'the Republican party is just not conservative enough for me anymore........so I'm voting for Obama'!? :hmm:

Indeed, and that is what the linked essay also says, like you. A new generation is taking over in the US. The once total dominance of white man in the US is no more. a lot of younger people have moved into once republican, conservative bastion-states, but that they moved there does not mean they adopt conservative agendas. foreign immigration is taking place, changing ethnical patterns in the population structure and no ,onger willingly falling into place in just the two existing party schemes, and with that comes different balances of interests, from south to north, "white" america is in slow but constant decline, while "hispanic" America is growing in influence.

Republicans used to live by the habit of expecting that power is theirs, and that theirs is the dominant view, it was taken as a natural thing, as if given and guaranteed by God's mercy. But time and population have changed, plus the Bush-factor: last but not least the voting has been a loud sounding slap in the face for Bush himself.

"Country first". It's time that conservative Republicans now learn to live up to that slogan of theirs, and look beyond the horizon of their ideologic trenches. I don't know if Palin has a future in their party, or will simply sink back to where she has surfaced from, but I predict that putting your money on a political course represented by her "beliefs", as she put it, will not give success to the Republicans the next time - that era of ultra-hardcore conservatism is over, like is socalled neoconservatism since quite a while already. It began to dominate in the 80s, with Reagan, and now has been brought to an end, in form of the Bush-years. Hasn't Clinton just lend a White House that wasn't his anyway, but by nature and moral legitimiation belonged to the Republicans, always? I currently see it as unlikely that this extreme conservatism will repeat itself so soon. MacCain was on the right way when tending to move away from the extreme right, and more towards the middle. Now his party and the followers of the party have to continue non that road. Their mistake was not that they moved too far into that direction, but not far enough.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Quillan

I would hardly call it a clear mandate. The popular vote was very close (though not nearly as close as Bush/Gore in 2000). It was only the electoral college that was lopsided.

Roger that!

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Yes, I expect all of that from you first paragraph Skybird. After all, he is the One, the Chosen One, Messiah! Are you telling me I was sold a lemon?

He is the one elected (Senator Obama) whether you like it or not.
Are you telling me that 54% of americans choose a lemon ? :rotfl:
If thats true its not very flattering for your country.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

It amuses me that several people on here think that the GOP lost because it wasn't right-wing enough!

Didn't the US just vote, giving a clear mandate, for one of its most liberal Senators to be the next president?

Doesn't that tell you something about public opinion in the US at the moment?

I don't see the logic;.......'the Republican party is just not conservative enough for me anymore........so I'm voting for Obama'!? :hmm:

It is hard to understand seeing as nearly every other mandate on the ballot was voted for in a conservative way. Banning gay marrige in California and Florida is a good example.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

This election it was like....do I vote for the liberal white guy, or the liberal black guy.....

What difference did it make in the end?

That about sums it up alright. Palin was the only thing that made me start liking McCain again.

-S[/QUOTE]

Haha... political analysis will reveal that McCain lost because of Palin.
She alienated all the center voters that were going to choose McCain giving him a real fighting chance against Obama.
And if she is to be the next presidential candidate in 2012 than the good 'ol party is in worst shape than ever.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Quillan

I would hardly call it a clear mandate. The popular vote was very close (though not nearly as close as Bush/Gore in 2000).

Strange that suddenly this argument is allowed this way, but was turned down when it aimed the other way around, four and eight years ago.

It was only the electoral college that was lopsided.

I certainly would not say that your voting system is en par with the intentions of your constitution. It can only be understood as a system designed like it is by reacting to the needs and circumstanbces of the world in which it was created. But these factors all have changed. A system where it is possible that a majority of voters vote for this candidate, but the other one wins, has some very serious flaws designed into it. such an outcome is nothing else but a total distortion of a democratic legitimiatio0n procedure.America should not allow itself anymore to afford this sub-standard voting system, and fundamentally change it (oh hear the traditionalists yelling...). It reminds of third world niveau, that simple, and is not adequate procedure for values and standards as formulated in the constitution. I mean, every four years the world is both wondering and laughing about it. The needs that influenced the design of the system, are no longer there. Nothing speaks against replacing it, then, without violating the spirit of the constitution and the country a single bit.

[Kapt Z]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

It is hard to understand seeing as nearly every other mandate on the ballot was voted for in a conservative way. Banning gay marrige in California and Florida is a good example.

We elect the first African-American president AND ban gay marriage?!?

We've come so far...

So far yet to go...

[JHuschke]

It is really sad that he has won. Only by blacks who voted for him because they were black and white girls voted for him because they thought he was cute. Pfft. You vote for someone you want to be president because of what changes they want, not if they are cute or they have the same skin color as you.


Yet I look at the NRA card and see what changes he wants to make.
1. No right to use weapon for home defense
2. Need a "federal" license to own a weapon which you pay for monthly
3. 90 % of gun dealer stores shut down
4. Almost ban ALL hunting.
5. Ban the right to bear/own arms.

Not to mention 5 more, which I forgot that I saw on the NRA card.

[JALU3]

I was listening to the radio and something a caller said resonated with me. To paraphrase, 'it feels like we elected the popular basketball jock for student council president instead of the nerdy ROTC kid'.

Yes we say we as a party didn't run as conservative, because the party has been lead by slighty to the right moderates. Therefore, or voting base isn't as energetic. And to hell with the new Generation BS. I am a member of this new generation, growing up in the Reagan, G.H.W.B, and Clinton Administrations. I can say that there are many within my generation who are stantly conservative, even would call me a moderate. However, I don't think we get the media play that those on the other side of the aisle do, and thus because we are so easily molded by popular media, many who don't have a concrete understanding of their beliefs are glade to blindly follow what they are tolled as cool or hip.
My sister is one of them. One year my junior, she said that she didn't know anything about politics, or held any real policy positions without much forethought as to why. However, come election day she was jumping up and down for Obama because she voted for him provisionally in Nevada.

I think the problem is that the public, 52+% of it at least, saw the GOP as the party in power, "the man". Therefore, they blamed all that was negative on my party. Furthermore, everyone loves to bash on President Bush, who given all the circumstances didn't do half bad (certainly note the worst president so far, certainly not the best either). Give it four years, when the President Elect Obama promises go unfulfilled, how his weak foreign policy leads to instability in Iraq and Afghanistan, how his increased taxes causes many companies to force to lay off thousands of workers, and how his liberal immigration policies will cause the working classes wages to stagnat and deflate.

[fatty]

Originally Posted by JHuschke

Yet I look at the NRA card and see what changes he wants to make.
1. No right to use weapon for home defense
2. Need a "federal" license to own a weapon which you pay for monthly
3. 90 % of gun dealer stores shut down
4. Almost ban ALL hunting.
5. Ban the right to bear/own arms.

Not to mention 5 more, which I forgot that I saw on the NRA card.

Not that I have any business involving myself in American politics, but have you ever thought to confirm these things independently, preferably from primary sources? You may find your view of the world will change when you stop being spoonfed with information filtered through a source with an obvious agenda.

Here's something to get you started: a (rather depressingly) brief article from Obama's platform on hunting and sports shooting

[August]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

It is hard to understand seeing as nearly every other mandate on the ballot was voted for in a conservative way. Banning gay marrige in California and Florida is a good example.

What that says, I think, is that most of America remains as conservative as it ever was, and that voting in a candidate doesn't mean automatically mean accepting all of his political parties agenda.

Re the NRA Card Check this. (and get rid of that jeezly nazi sig)

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...ets_obama.html

I think the NRA is overdoing it some but there are some things to consider. Obamas denials are usually couched in terms like "not politically practicable" and "I just don't think we can get that done". That doesn't mean he wouldn't try it if he thought he could get away with it politically.

[Skybird]

Latest news is the Republican party is sending lawyers over to Palin, investigating her excessive spending on hair, makeup and dressing. Sounds as if a major part of the party is looking for a pretty head that promises to roll smoothly on the bowling alley.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Latest news is the Republican party is sending lawyers over to Palin, investigating her excessive spending on hair, makeup and dressing. Sounds as if a major part of the party is looking for a pretty head that promises to roll smoothly on the bowling alley.

I have to ask... what is to be gained by this?

[August]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

I have to ask... what is to be gained by this?

Hey the latest news is the German government is sending lawyers over to Skybird investigating his excessively long posts and arrogant, know it all attitude. This has about as much truth as the crap he just posted...