Flash: OBAMA IS PRESIDENT!!!

Christopher Snow · 11-05-08, 08:23 PM

The reason for the "natural born" clause in the US Constitution is to ensure that the commander-in-chief of our armed forces owes allegience only to the United States, and not to any other country or soveriegn.

The document was authored at a time when a significant proportion of the population still DID feel it owed allegience to European countries (primarily England--I'm sure a number of those "newly minted" US citizens certainly still did feel they were subjects of King George III even after America won it's independence, so the clause was put in there to assuage worries that a newly elected President might secretly want to reunify his new country with England (and might take steps to do so)).

Remember, it was all brand new back then, and our founding fathers were very much "making it all up as they went along."

It's still vitally important today, IMO, for a different reason--the CIC is in control of a nuclear arsenal that could destroy the world.

CS

Christopher Snow · 11-05-08, 08:54 PM

Periscope Depth:

Thank you. I realize I sound like I've gone half off the deep end, and I'm trying really hard not to send my own little tugboat under, so if I only sound "half crazy," maybe I can stilll rescue the situation after all (I'm still terrified, but I'm battling with it).

To anyone I offended last night, I apologize. I was certainly not in complete control of my emotions (I'm doing only marginally better tonight), and I'm sure I was out of line more than a few times.

Hopefully no one took it too personally.

-----------

I do value the chance to talk to people who are more educated (than most) on military matters, and world history, which is part of why I came in here last night to rage at the walls instead of going somewhere else.

It's pretty hard to explain to average Americans today (particularly those under thirty) that awful things CAN happen in this world, that strong and sustainable forces of terror can be unleashed, and that it can potentially happen even here in this country. Few really understand, for example, that Hitler was actually a "National Socialist," and that he was actually ELECTED into office (admittadly, not by a majority) before he began to consolidate power and kill off dissent.

Yes, some do know he was a "Nazi," but far too few over here realize that the word IS the short form of "National Socialist," and that his politics and economic ideology lay to the far left (or what would be described as far left in US terms).

These days skinheads--"neo-nazis" (and therefore all Nazis in general it seems in the eyes of far too large a portion of the general public) are typically thought of as coming from the far right-wing...from the Republican end of the political spectrum, and not the left at all. A much greater proportion of those in this forum will know that this is completely backwards, but it's difficult to explain to the average "man on the street" in this country (our educators have let us down in a big way on this, IMO).

It might be correct to label those small far-fringe groups as "right-wing" only because their ecomomic ideology is the complete opposite from Hitler's, to the extent they even have one at all--they are really just racists, and not at all the same economic and political "Nazis of old."

I THINK many more of you in here will see the distinction, and will realize that if the "Old Nazism" that swept Europe in the 1930's were to rear its ugly head again (this time in the US), that it would, indeed, come from the political far-left once again (and not from the far right at all), but I'm sure there are some, even in here, who do not understand this truth.

AND THAT POSSIBILITY is what really scares the hell out of me. I think we are closer now, after this election, than at any time since the Great Depression to seeing this happen here in the US.

Thanks for listening.

CS

AngusJS · 11-05-08, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Snow

Periscope Depth:

Yes, some do know he was a "Nazi," but far too few over here realize that the word IS the short form of "National Socialist," and that his politics and economic ideology lay to the far left (or what would be described as far left in US terms).
CS

If Nazism is a left wing phenomenon, how do you explain this chart?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...Weimar_Germany

It tracks parliamentary elections in Prussia from 1919 to 1933. The SPD experiences a general decline in seats, the communist KPD remains the same, and the centrist parties essentially remain the same.

The conservative/right wing DNVP, WP and DVP however all lose massive amounts of votes in 1932 and even disappear entirely, almost as if voters from those conservative/right wing parties were flocking to another -the NSDAP.

Why would right wing voters vote for the Nazis, if the Nazis weren't right wing?

Christopher Snow · 11-06-08, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngusJS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher Snow

Periscope Depth:

Yes, some do know he was a "Nazi," but far too few over here realize that the word IS the short form of "National Socialist," and that his politics and economic ideology lay to the far left (or what would be described as far left in US terms).
CS

If Nazism is a left wing phenomenon, how do you explain this chart?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...Weimar_Germany

It tracks parliamentary elections in Prussia from 1919 to 1933. The SPD experiences a general decline in seats, the communist KPD remains the same, and the centrist parties essentially remain the same.

The conservative/right wing DNVP, WP and DVP however all lose massive amounts of votes in 1932 and even disappear entirely, almost as if voters from those conservative/right wing parties were flocking to another -the NSDAP.

Why would right wing voters vote for the Nazis, if the Nazis weren't right wing?

Understand that this is the first time I've ever seen the chart, so it will take me some time to come to grips even with the basic "cast of players." If I remember this thread, I willl try to get back with you once I've done so.

Meanwhile...let me postulate that "right and left" in terms of German Politics in the 20's and 30's MIGHT not translate well into US politics in 2008 (as regards definitions of "right" and "left)."

I will also say that, from my US perspective, Socialism and Communism are not terribly dissimilar to one another, in principle. I'm sure you will disagree, but know that this is generally my view. From my perspective, both theologies lie far off to the left...

That's the best I can do for now.

CS

11-05-08, 08:23 PM	#1
Christopher Snow Engineer Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 201 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	The reason for the "natural born" clause in the US Constitution is to ensure that the commander-in-chief of our armed forces owes allegience only to the United States, and not to any other country or soveriegn. The document was authored at a time when a significant proportion of the population still DID feel it owed allegience to European countries (primarily England--I'm sure a number of those "newly minted" US citizens certainly still did feel they were subjects of King George III even after America won it's independence, so the clause was put in there to assuage worries that a newly elected President might secretly want to reunify his new country with England (and might take steps to do so)). Remember, it was all brand new back then, and our founding fathers were very much "making it all up as they went along." It's still vitally important today, IMO, for a different reason--the CIC is in control of a nuclear arsenal that could destroy the world. CS Last edited by Christopher Snow; 11-06-08 at 12:12 AM.

11-05-08, 08:54 PM	#2
Christopher Snow Engineer Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 201 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Periscope Depth: Thank you. I realize I sound like I've gone half off the deep end, and I'm trying really hard not to send my own little tugboat under, so if I only sound "half crazy," maybe I can stilll rescue the situation after all (I'm still terrified, but I'm battling with it). To anyone I offended last night, I apologize. I was certainly not in complete control of my emotions (I'm doing only marginally better tonight), and I'm sure I was out of line more than a few times. Hopefully no one took it too personally. ----------- I do value the chance to talk to people who are more educated (than most) on military matters, and world history, which is part of why I came in here last night to rage at the walls instead of going somewhere else. It's pretty hard to explain to average Americans today (particularly those under thirty) that awful things CAN happen in this world, that strong and sustainable forces of terror can be unleashed, and that it can potentially happen even here in this country. Few really understand, for example, that Hitler was actually a "National Socialist," and that he was actually ELECTED into office (admittadly, not by a majority) before he began to consolidate power and kill off dissent. Yes, some do know he was a "Nazi," but far too few over here realize that the word IS the short form of "National Socialist," and that his politics and economic ideology lay to the far left (or what would be described as far left in US terms). These days skinheads--"neo-nazis" (and therefore all Nazis in general it seems in the eyes of far too large a portion of the general public) are typically thought of as coming from the far right-wing...from the Republican end of the political spectrum, and not the left at all. A much greater proportion of those in this forum will know that this is completely backwards, but it's difficult to explain to the average "man on the street" in this country (our educators have let us down in a big way on this, IMO). It might be correct to label those small far-fringe groups as "right-wing" only because their ecomomic ideology is the complete opposite from Hitler's, to the extent they even have one at all--they are really just racists, and not at all the same economic and political "Nazis of old." I THINK many more of you in here will see the distinction, and will realize that if the "Old Nazism" that swept Europe in the 1930's were to rear its ugly head again (this time in the US), that it would, indeed, come from the political far-left once again (and not from the far right at all), but I'm sure there are some, even in here, who do not understand this truth. AND THAT POSSIBILITY is what really scares the hell out of me. I think we are closer now, after this election, than at any time since the Great Depression to seeing this happen here in the US. Thanks for listening. CS Last edited by Christopher Snow; 11-05-08 at 09:23 PM.