May I ask, What is wrong with the left coast???

[1480]

Originally Posted by Frederf

It's brought up in school because there's a demonstrated need for the schools to address it. You should expect a school to teach hatred is wrong especially when hatred at school becomes an obstacle for schools to perform their primary task. The reasons to take a proactive approach are obvious:

1. By preventing the issue before it happens you avoid the emotional damage that such actions bring.
2. Using a punishment-based method has negative side effects.

The idea that "it's a parent's job" is irrelevant if a parent is not doing it. It needs to get done and if the parents don't do it then the schools must. Letting the behavior go unchecked is not practical. It is not the right of a parent to let either their wayward child damage others or to let their child be damaged by undo exposure to hate at school. If at any time you thought it was, you were misinformed.

Also your taxes going toward public education is not a punishment but rather the cost that you pay to live in a society surrounded by people who have had access to education. This is the benefit for the tax money you pay whether you have any direct use of public education or not. Make no mistake, adults with no children still benefit from the public education system.

You know what, maybe if parents took a more active role in their child's life and did the right thing, maybe our juvenile court system would not be overburdened. It is a sad commentary of society today that valuable time is taken out of lessons to address hatred of any kind. I don't remember at any level of my educational experience that addressed treating others with respect and dignity. My mother and father took care of that, and I thank them still to this day.

Oh yeah, the benefits of tax money for public education: metal detectors in all entrances of Chicago public high schools. Off duty police for security. For terrorist attacks, no, because the little savages were never told right and wrong from their parents. Yet you argue that its the school's responsibility to address this. Obviously, its not working out too well.

I still lay the fault with the parents. The good ones get punished while the bad ones get free child care.

And I'm not sure where childless property owners benefit from the public education system, I thank you F, for the stimulating interlocution.

[Frederf]

If you wanted to argue that parenting should be better I'd be happy to join in but we're going to need someone to take up an opposing view While I would agree that some public education dollars are not used with 100% correctness, I can't say it's all a waste.

What I meant about education dollars helping people indirectly is that funding for schools is like an investment in the human infrastructure of our society which benefits all.

Likewise been good discussing it with you. I even had to look up interlocution. Realize that my viewpoints are not as extreme as my arguments laid out but I merely take up such a one sided viewpoint when engaging in these kind of 1 v 1 debates.

[Task Force]

In my honest opinion, I dont think that 4-6 year olds should do this. Honestly, most kids that age dont even know what those words meen. At that age they shouldnt even be thinking about any thing like that. They should be concentrating on getting them to be good students, and transitioning them to school. I remember back when I was in kindergarden, almost none of us knew about gays and same sex relationships. (most of us didnt even know all of are numbers and letters yet) To be honest with you, some of the teachers I had shouldnt even have been teaching, If I had kids I wouldnt want them teaching my children about this. They should be concentrating on math, writeing, reading, and teaching them to act like humans instead of wild animals. I have much more to say about disiplin, but thats not what this topics about.

(I hope I dont make anyone not like me, this is my honest opinion)

[Blacklight]

The problem is that there are way too many parents out there who DON'T teach this. I'll reiterate. Kids are never too young to learn this lesson. The earlier either the parents or school starts teaching them about this stuff, the better. It's far easier to teach them young than waiting till they're older and set in their ways. This kind of teaching has no negative impact. If the kids are learning a positive thing, what's the problem ? This lesson was more about tollerance and behavior than anything else and I speak from past experience. A LOT of kids do NOT get this from home.
That lesson was not about teaching anything complicated about human relations. It was more a behavior control thing as said in the post above. They wouldn't teach it if they hadn't had a problem with it in the past.

[Task Force]

Yea, I see what you meen, Now if they can get them to control the rest of there issues. Heres what happens.

Elementary school> kid is rude and makes fun of other kids, elementary school allows this to happen> Elementary school sends there slime over to middle school and they do nothing about it> high school gets these people, and dose little to nothing to them and sends them to the world to cause chaos and be worthless.

Trust me, Ive been putting up with this school stuff for 11 years, and I have been pushed around for all of those 11 years, now if they would have done something about this in elementary school then it would more than likely not be happening now to me and numerious other kids. So there is actualy some good that could come out of this. But then again, it may not sink in. (go in one ear and out the other)

[August]

Originally Posted by Task Force

Trust me, Ive been putting up with this school stuff for 11 years, and I have been pushed around for all of those 11 years, now if they would have done something about this in elementary school then it would more than likely not be happening now to me and numerious other kids. So there is actualy some good that could come out of this. But then again, it may not sink in. (go in one ear and out the other)

Instead of just putting up with it did you ever think of fighting back?
The way to stop a bully is to stand up to him. They can't be social engineered out of existence, any more than can greed or lust, or loyalty or friendship, or any other human trait good or bad.

IMO Schools should confine themselves to teaching regular subjects like reading, writing and mathematics. I see way too many high school graduates unable to do these things on the most basic levels. Leave the social engineering tasks to the parents where it belongs.

[Task Force]

Ya know, Ive thought about that. But they have all there friends in there classes and Id have 6+ people jumping me at once. I can deal with 3 but not a half a class. (almost happend last friday.) Had me in a corner of the class.
(So far I have been choaked, jumped, shoved, hit, spit on, threatend, been called 1000s of names over 11 years. And the schools dont care 1%)

[1480]

Everyone here brings up solid thoughts to the topic except, I won't mention any handles. It's a threefold discussion: 1. I believe you do far greater harm to the development of a child when you just tell them they are doing wrong, without an explanation. To correct a child's behavior you need to address the action, describe why it is wrong and then come up with an alternative solution to correct the bad behavior. To tell a child that using the word "gay" is offensive, just does not cut the mustard. You have to tell them why and what it means. THATS the problem I am having with this. In order for you to address this problem you have to explain what "gay" is. Therein lies the problem, because you must delve into a subject that 4-6 year old is not ready for. 4-6 can start dealing with the concept of death, differentiation of sexes and races, but it's a large can of worms that even the well intentioned should not open up.

2. It becomes the nanny state's problem to raise our children. I bust my a$$ to make sure my child gets everything they need, whether it's material, my time, or lessons in values, morality, and life. I have seen too many kids get locked up for horrific actions against others. I've seen parents sent to parenting classes as part of their conditions for probation on child abuse cases. It throws my mind. Because of this, my child would get subjected to things in school that they have already learned at home. A remedial golden rule class if you will. A waste of time unfortunately.

3. Why didn't the parents have a say in this. Get their input and inform them why this course of action should be taken. Since it is not part of the normal curriculam should they not have a say so?

[Captain Vlad]

I thought about saying what I'd have done in that situation, but it'd just get you in trouble if you did it.

[1480]

Originally Posted by Task Force

Ya know, Ive thought about that. But they have all there friends in there classes and Id have 6+ people jumping me at once. I can deal with 3 but not a half a class. (almost happend last friday.) Had me in a corner of the class.
(So far I have been choaked, jumped, shoved, hit, spit on, threatend, been called 1000s of names over 11 years. And the schools dont care 1%)

If a school does not take any action, have you and your parents (I'm not trying to be ignorant, I am assuming you are under 18?) go to the police. Explain to them what has happened and that you have informed the school, but they never took any action and, if under 18, let your parents inform the officers that you would like to take them criminal court.

[Task Force]

Also the fact is a 5 or 6 year old dosent even know what they are talking about, most dont ever know what gay meens, they just hear it being used (on TV or by parents/relatives) and say it because they said it. Those kid probably will forget about that pledge in less than a week. Thats how kids are.

[Task Force]

oah yes, my parents have gone to the school, school board, ect. But nothing does any good. Its just the horiable school system. They are overpacking the schools around here. (allowing trouble makers to get out of distric passes for schools other than the ones they are surspost to go to) My school has 600 more kids in it than it should.
Ever sence kindergarden I have been dealing with people, the first times people put there hands on me where when I was on the playground, Two kids jumped me and choked me untill I fell, then when I was eating my lunch some kid spit on me.

Now get this, I had a teacher allow a kid to throw a hand full of water on me, becuase a kid said I splashed him with water in the bathroom when I was washing my hands. That is a example of what is teaching in the school systems.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by August

Instead of just putting up with it did you ever think of fighting back?
The way to stop a bully is to stand up to him. They can't be social engineered out of existence, any more than can greed or lust, or loyalty or friendship, or any other human trait good or bad.

IMO Schools should confine themselves to teaching regular subjects like reading, writing and mathematics. I see way too many high school graduates unable to do these things on the most basic levels. Leave the social engineering tasks to the parents where it belongs.

August has it ever dawned on you that honor in fighting in school has died LONG ago?

You fight back these days and you got EVERY one of his buddies waiting to kick your ass the first chance they get. That "Fight back" bull**** is just that these days.

[Task Force]

yea, Makes me wish my parents could afford private school. The classes im in at this dump of a school are so bad, we havent learned nothing ever since the school year started (over 2 months ago)

[Blacklight]

yea, Makes me wish my parents could afford private school. The classes im in at this dump of a school are so bad, we havent learned nothing ever since the school year started (over 2 months ago)

Not to change the subject but..

Words of wisdom from someone who's been there and I mean REALLY REALLY been there (I spent about 50% of my school life stuffed in lockers, and getting atomic wedgies) First off, it DOES get better once you get out of high school. Don't let it get in the way of your education like I did. I ended up with a LOT of making up to do. College is MUCH better.
It WILL make you a stronger person later on in life. You will NOT be the same person that you are now 5-10 years from now and neither will they. Heck, if I knew back then what I knew now, things would have been a LOT different in school for me.
Going to the school, parents, teachers, police didn't help me a bit. It may help you.. I mean.. there's always restraining orders.
First off, I'd have to say to take a relaxed and mellow view of everything. Getting upset will just egg them on. Ignoring them will not work. Fighting is NOT reccomended. Your best bet is to find a niche. Get involved in something in the school like the paper, one of the clubs.. etc... That will increase your support around you. Get yourself an interesting hobby that would be interesting to others and share it. The only other thing I can reccomend is to act like you take NOTHING they say seriously and joke right back to them.
If things do get physical (and don't you start anything physical), go immediately to the principal/police, whatever.
Back when I was in school, it was the 80's. I ended up as the stepping stone for all the jocks and rich kids in their bids for "popularity". Not only that, because one of my friends was bald, I got in trouble with a gang in my school who thought that we were nazi skinheads (which we SO weren't). I've been stuffed in lockers, toilets, shot at with bb guns, had fireworks shot at me, had food trays dumped on me, AND I was tossed naked out of the gym locker room out into the cafiteria durring lunch time. AND of course since the kids on the sports teams were doing it, they would get little slaps on the hand and I would get suspended (god fobid they lose their star quarterback durring football season). I changed my entire outlook senior year. Mellowed out, got into some interesting niches (writing poetry, short stories, a novel, school yearbook, and took guitar class.)
Another thing that made a difference was that I started talking to EVERYBODY instead of being a wierd loner. So I went from that wierd guy who never talks and sits in the corner all alone to that wierd guy who's actually pretty interesting and funny.
I had ZERO problems from the jocks that year and as a matter of fact, I ended up befriending a few. One of those jocks eventually became the mayor of my home town.
Well, I hope I helped out a little.

And now I return you to our previous topic.