How to survive ?? - Page 3

predavolk · 08-06-08, 01:29 PM

Well, I just got smoked by a destroyer in late 1943. Attacking convoys is absolute hell now thanks to improved sonar. There's just no escaping it. Using a IXB probably doesn't help, but it's just bloody nuts.

I don't play die = end of career (I don't have the time to start new careers), so I will write the whole thing up in my ongoing 100K thread when I reload the game. Briefly:

1- Attacking convoys off the West coast of Africa, along that money line 'cause thats where I was sent (I'd choose the Caribbean again in a heartbeat vs. this convoy doom).

2- First convoy I attack, I nail a couple of ships and speed away nicely. I get over 500M from my last datum point without being detected, go to silent from flank, and coast another 300M. I'm thinking- sweet! Then I get pinged from 1000M away by a destroyer who hounds the crap out of me. Decoys work for about 5-10 seconds.

I'm just about to screw it and load my type IVs to clear him, when he finally gives up after 45 minutes. Fortunately, the other escorts are gone back to the convoy too (at one point, 3 were hunting me). My conning tower is badly damaged, no periscopes left, so I'm happy to be alive. I limp to a milche-cow for new optics.

3- Back in the game, but now without type IVs. Which will prove fatal. I find and attack a convoy in the midst of a terrible storm. Perfect! I nail four ships, then head down deep and fast (as always, settling at around 220M). I then get pinged. Deploying decoys isn't working well, I end up with 3 of 6 escorts again hunting me. A fan-shaped deployment at 30 degree intervals, 4 decoys, then turning back into the middle of them, actually works once they are all on the other side of them. After a brief burst of speed (~15 seconds), I coast free and clear. Two return to the convoy, but no, the other one detects me again. I'm creeping at 2 knots, 220M beneath the sea, behind a screen of decoys, in 15knot, stormy weather.

Ping, ping, ping. I'm trying everything. Eventually, I get nailed and start taking on water. I see some of the escorts starting to return to my position. Low on decoys, I can't take any more of this, especially not from a pack of 3. I rise to the surface, getting hit on the way up, damaging my forward battery. I managed to fire a quick shot at the lone escort that runs safely under his ship.

Either I forgot to set it to magnetic, or it was a dud (type III, so unlikely). Then I get blown out of the water by his attack run.

On the plus side, I finished with 90K for the total cruise, but dead men can't brag.

Penetrating the convoy was as easy as ever. Even easier actually, as either their radar doesn't detect you before you detect it, or they don't respond to it at long ranges. So you get a really nice, early, on-the-surface account of how the escorts are laid out, which makes your ambush choice much easier. But once alerted, this improved sonar is absolutely lethal. My only possible suggestion now is to blow up the escorts, then dive. Maybe an all-out decoy deception could work, I'll try that too, but even if it works, that means only one convoy per patrol.

I understand that this lethality is (mostly) realistic, but it really sucks the wind out of your sails and radically alters the gameplay. Convoys are henceforth verboten without good anti-escort torps at the ready (meaning fewer anti-merchant torps can be fired, as the IVs and Vs need to be loaded and ready to use). And after I reload and finish this cruise, I think I'll ask for a transfer to a Type VII-41/42 in Norway while waiting for the XXI. Either that, or I'm taking my boat the hell away from convoys, no matter what! Maybe the American convoys will be easier to beat, but as is realistic, the war just became a LOT more suicidal.

Historically, some have chastised Donitz for sending his knowingly men to their deaths. I understand the strategic importance of maintaining the offensive, but I can also appreciate how some of the Kalheuns must have felt that they were being wasted on suicidal missions that had no hope of achieving anything beyond tying up resources for an imminent invasion. Donitz should've been in on the plot to nuke the nut and ended it for his men. I don't mean to turn this into a political arm-chair thread, just to point out that it sheds a lot of light on the relative futility of the later stages of the U-Boat war.

08-06-08, 02:41 PM

Next time try to deal with escorts first no matter what

If I will be lucky to stay afloat till acustic torps becomes available my highest-priority will be set on sinking escorts.

irish1958 · 08-06-08, 07:14 PM

Go Deep, go silent.
(and hope the bastards miss!

Chisum · 08-07-08, 01:16 AM

After resumed a backup I have finally survived.
The tactic was simple: attack them by front and firing only acoustic torpedos against the hunters.
By this way I sunk 7 of the 10 hunters.
That lets me firing in the convoy.
After that, go depth(180m) and silent, let pass the convoy and wait the night before surfaced.

But now I have an other problem to survive: the air attacks !!
Damned...
I'm in SE of Rockall Bank in Oct 1944 and it's not possible to push up schnorkel.
Planes comes quickly...
And there is never night...
Need a very bad wheather condition but it's not the case...
I was attacked often and it's a luck to be alive yet.
Radar out, radio out...

Know you a tactic to escape ??

10-29-08, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

strategic use of decoys...

What i have done in the past is launch decoys in the following manner.

While diving after the initial attack start a 270 degree turn, release a decoy every 45 degrees of heading change

lets assume you start at 000 degrees

here is the procedure

order a depth of 220 meters
start a right turn
rig for silent running
at heading 045 - launch decoy
at heading 090 - launch decoy
at heading 135 - launch decoy
at heading 180 - launch decoy
at heading 225 - launch decoy
at heading 270 - launch decoy - stop turn - continue dive to about 220 meters

this will create a descending spiral of decoys... the destroyers will be receiving seven echo returns when they ping... 6 decoys and 1 u-boat. this forces them to decide which return is the actual u-boat and then attack it... they have a 1 in 7 chance of selecting the right target... hopefully the selected a decoy instead of your boat.

sneak away at 220 meters depth making gentle 15 degree turns left and right.

never increasing speed never surfacing or never securing from silent running until you are sure you have escaped.

the problem with this strategy is you use up pretty much all of your decoys in the process, but you can refit at a supply ship.

Yes but you forgot to mention that with every use of a bold attracts extra DD to investigate a scene, if used near the convoy (crazy laugh)

Red Heat · 10-29-08, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chisum

Certainly not, I use often the backup lol !

But sorry, I'm in love with the IX/D2.
She have more torpedos and I don't want change.
It not means that I don't like the type VII/C 41, very fast effectively, but I prefer the U-178 who finish the war at Bordeaux.

You can understand now why I use the backup: it's an Historical question, U-178 CAN NOT be sunk !
:p

But i real admire your courage and strenght to finnish the war using the IXD2!

Go Go U-178...

sonar_PL · 10-30-08, 10:31 PM

What a miracle so Your sub has not been crushed? 30% hull? On 250m? Ha ha ha. Impossible on not cheated game. Very funny. Is this another depth cheat files?

Can I sing you something? Something like.....

Angelic procession let your soul adopt...

crackle... crackle...
boom!

gAiNiAc · 10-30-08, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chisum

I know it's a suicide to attack a convoy in 1944 but as is my duty, I try anyway.
But...
But when we fight against a weapon devastating like this on the picture, can you tell me how can we survive ?

The first attack...

...is fatal.

How fast were you going?

sonar_PL · 10-31-08, 07:07 AM

No chances. Blowing ballast is to slow. Pressure crush his u-boat.

Hartmann · 10-31-08, 01:09 PM

Attack a convoy in 1944 ?? it´s not a madness, it´s a suicide.

and using a IXD boat...

The only way is using long range firing and stay very deep and silent, but is not easy because the allied sonar and asdic is very advanced in this time.

With this large boats the best is go to caribbean, africa or india , where the allied air cover is not very dense and you can find some opportunity target.

if you want convoy battles in the atlantic and have a chance to survive you have to use a VII boat with snorkel and radar detectors.

if you want a bit of "cheat" another possibility is use a XXI in summer 1944.
this is a huge difference and you will have a lot more chances.

meduza · 10-31-08, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartmann

if you want a bit of "cheat" another possibility is use a XXI in summer 1944.
this is a huge difference and you will have a lot more chances.

Even with XXI it is extremely difficult to get within a firing range of an electric torpedo. At least the XXI has enough speed to allow escape if the attack goes wrong.

I'm in my probably last patrol (April 30th '45) and I plan to take a bunch of long range steam torpedoes for convoy attacks.

Jimbuna · 11-01-08, 05:00 PM

In a XXI I prefer the Falke....then a quick getaway.

rifleman13 · 11-02-08, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

In a XXI I prefer the Falke....then a quick getaway.

Or a spread of FaTs and LuTs in a convoy to stir up the nest.

In one patrol they really nearly crashed into one another.:rotfl:
This patrol I died!

jpm1 · 11-06-08, 03:11 PM

no comment

08-06-08, 07:14 PM	#33
irish1958 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 3,250 Downloads: 320 Uploads: 11	How to Survive? Go Deep, go silent. (and hope the bastards miss! __________________ Irish1958

08-07-08, 01:16 AM	#34
Chisum Seasoned Skipper Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bastogne, Belgium Posts: 716 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	After resumed a backup I have finally survived. The tactic was simple: attack them by front and firing only acoustic torpedos against the hunters. By this way I sunk 7 of the 10 hunters. That lets me firing in the convoy. After that, go depth(180m) and silent, let pass the convoy and wait the night before surfaced. But now I have an other problem to survive: the air attacks !! Damned... I'm in SE of Rockall Bank in Oct 1944 and it's not possible to push up schnorkel. Planes comes quickly... And there is never night... Need a very bad wheather condition but it's not the case... I was attacked often and it's a luck to be alive yet. Radar out, radio out... Know you a tactic to escape ?? __________________ [http://simus-paradise.forumactif.com/silent-hunter-iii-f12/ Last edited by Chisum; 08-07-08 at 02:06 AM.

10-31-08, 01:09 PM	#40
Hartmann Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona Posts: 1,857 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	Attack a convoy in 1944 ?? it´s not a madness, it´s a suicide. and using a IXD boat... The only way is using long range firing and stay very deep and silent, but is not easy because the allied sonar and asdic is very advanced in this time. With this large boats the best is go to caribbean, africa or india , where the allied air cover is not very dense and you can find some opportunity target. if you want convoy battles in the atlantic and have a chance to survive you have to use a VII boat with snorkel and radar detectors. if you want a bit of "cheat" another possibility is use a XXI in summer 1944. this is a huge difference and you will have a lot more chances. __________________ But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor

11-01-08, 05:00 PM	#42
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,595 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	In a XXI I prefer the Falke....then a quick getaway. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-06-08, 01:29 PM	#31
predavolk Weps Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 369 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well, I just got smoked by a destroyer in late 1943. *Attacking convoys is absolute hell now thanks to improved sonar*. There's just no escaping it. Using a IXB probably doesn't help, but it's just bloody nuts. I don't play die = end of career (I don't have the time to start new careers), so I will write the whole thing up in my ongoing 100K thread when I reload the game. Briefly: 1- Attacking convoys off the West coast of Africa, along that money line 'cause thats where I was sent (I'd choose the Caribbean again in a heartbeat vs. this convoy doom). 2- First convoy I attack, I nail a couple of ships and speed away nicely. I get over 500M from my last datum point without being detected, go to silent from flank, and coast another 300M. I'm thinking- sweet! Then I get pinged from 1000M away by a destroyer who hounds the crap out of me. Decoys work for about 5-10 seconds. I'm just about to screw it and load my type IVs to clear him, when he finally gives up after 45 minutes. Fortunately, the other escorts are gone back to the convoy too (at one point, 3 were hunting me). My conning tower is badly damaged, no periscopes left, so I'm happy to be alive. I limp to a milche-cow for new optics. 3- Back in the game, but now without type IVs. Which will prove fatal. I find and attack a convoy in the midst of a terrible storm. Perfect! I nail four ships, then head down deep and fast (as always, settling at around 220M). I then get pinged. Deploying decoys isn't working well, I end up with 3 of 6 escorts again hunting me. A fan-shaped deployment at 30 degree intervals, 4 decoys, then turning back into the middle of them, actually works once they are all on the other side of them. After a brief burst of speed (~15 seconds), I coast free and clear. Two return to the convoy, but no, the other one detects me again. I'm creeping at 2 knots, 220M beneath the sea, behind a screen of decoys, in 15knot, stormy weather. Ping, ping, ping. I'm trying everything. Eventually, I get nailed and start taking on water. I see some of the escorts starting to return to my position. Low on decoys, I can't take any more of this, especially not from a pack of 3. I rise to the surface, getting hit on the way up, damaging my forward battery. I managed to fire a quick shot at the lone escort that runs safely under his ship. Either I forgot to set it to magnetic, or it was a dud (type III, so unlikely). Then I get blown out of the water by his attack run. On the plus side, I finished with 90K for the total cruise, but dead men can't brag. Penetrating the convoy was as easy as ever. Even easier actually, as either their radar doesn't detect you before you detect it, or they don't respond to it at long ranges. So you get a really nice, early, on-the-surface account of how the escorts are laid out, which makes your ambush choice much easier. But once alerted, this improved sonar is absolutely lethal. My only possible suggestion now is to blow up the escorts, then dive. Maybe an all-out decoy deception could work, I'll try that too, but even if it works, that means only one convoy per patrol. I understand that this lethality is (mostly) realistic, but it really sucks the wind out of your sails and radically alters the gameplay. Convoys are henceforth verboten without good anti-escort torps at the ready (meaning fewer anti-merchant torps can be fired, as the IVs and Vs need to be loaded and ready to use). And after I reload and finish this cruise, I think I'll ask for a transfer to a Type VII-41/42 in Norway while waiting for the XXI. Either that, or I'm taking my boat the hell away from convoys, no matter what! Maybe the American convoys will be easier to beat, but as is realistic, the war just became a LOT more suicidal. Historically, some have chastised Donitz for sending his knowingly men to their deaths. I understand the strategic importance of maintaining the offensive, but I can also appreciate how some of the Kalheuns must have felt that they were being wasted on suicidal missions that had no hope of achieving anything beyond tying up resources for an imminent invasion. Donitz should've been in on the plot to nuke the nut and ended it for his men. I don't mean to turn this into a political arm-chair thread, just to point out that it sheds a lot of light on the relative futility of the later stages of the U-Boat war.

08-06-08, 02:41 PM	#32
Contact Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Next time try to deal with escorts first no matter what If I will be lucky to stay afloat till acustic torps becomes available my highest-priority will be set on sinking escorts.

10-30-08, 10:31 PM	#37
sonar_PL Machinist's Mate Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: czestochowa Posts: 123 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	What a miracle so Your sub has not been crushed? 30% hull? On 250m? Ha ha ha. Impossible on not cheated game. Very funny. Is this another depth cheat files? Can I sing you something? Something like..... Angelic procession let your soul adopt... crackle... crackle... boom!

10-31-08, 07:07 AM	#39
sonar_PL Machinist's Mate Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: czestochowa Posts: 123 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	No chances. Blowing ballast is to slow. Pressure crush his u-boat.

11-06-08, 03:11 PM	#44
jpm1 Captain Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 544 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	no comment