More religious violence: India

Your religion by the way leads to greater violence - wars. Germany WWII. The religion of land grab. Atheists usually degrade into religions of self satisfaction. A much more dangerous religion than any in the world.

I'll take Christianity any day! Much much safer.

-S

Not to offend but didn't Christianity play a major part in a bunch of wars called the "Crusades"

Name one war started by atheists?

Personally I'l stick with my Hellenic beliefs. YAY ZEUS!

Also didn't a certain monotheistic religion like to start people, who didn't follow their beliefs, on fire?

[August]

Originally Posted by Rilder

Name one war started by atheists?

WW2. Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini all atheists...

Originally Posted by August

WW2. Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini all atheists...

I thought hitler was that whole "Germany is God's true empire" or something.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by August

WW2. Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini all atheists...

Where did you hear that drivel? Hitler was a Roman-Catholic and Stalin was a Deist. Mussolini was an Atheist, though (or so he said; he was very anti-Catholic, that's for sure; he might have been trying to oppose the Vatican's power in this way; who knows).

Here's a few snaps of Hitler's beliefs:

http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/Ca...lersfaith.html

Stalin wrote himself that he rejected the idea of a Christian god or Jesus' existance. He did, however, believe there might be a god. He called himself a Deist, but I'd be edging more towards Agnostic for him.

[August]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Where did you hear that drivel? Hitler was a Roman-Catholic and Stalin was a Deist. Mussolini was an Atheist, though (or so he said; he was very anti-Catholic, that's for sure; he might have been trying to oppose the Vatican's power in this way; who knows).

Here's a few snaps of Hitler's beliefs:

http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/Ca...lersfaith.html

Stalin wrote himself that he rejected the idea of a Christian god or Jesus' existance. He did, however, believe there might be a god. He called himself a Deist, but I'd be edging more towards Agnostic for him.

So in other words you agree with me on one, come close to the same definition for another (agnostic/atheist) and use some biased website (CatholicArrogance.org) as proof against the third? Are you disagreeing with me out of habit or do you really believe what you just wrote?

The truth is that Hitler was no more a Roman Catholic than you are a Muslim.

From your own link:

"In early 1933, Hitler vowed secretly to completely eradicate Christianity from Germany. 'You are either a Christian or a German, you cannot be both.' But Hitler was smart enough to know that in a nation as Christian as Germany, the public and the churches must never know his true fellings and beliefs."

Those Sir, are not the actions of a Christian. They are the actions of a godless man using a religion to advance his own purposes. Same thing with Stalin and same thing with Mussolini so my original point stands.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by August

So in other words you agree with me on one, come close to the same definition for another (agnostic/atheist) and use some biased website (CatholicArrogance.org) as proof against the third? Are you disagreeing with me out of habit or do you really believe what you just wrote?

The truth is that Hitler was no more a Roman Catholic than you are a Muslim.

From your own link:

"In early 1933, Hitler vowed secretly to completely eradicate Christianity from Germany. 'You are either a Christian or a German, you cannot be both.' But Hitler was smart enough to know that in a nation as Christian as Germany, the public and the churches must never know his true fellings and beliefs."

Those Sir, are not the actions of a Christian. They are the actions of a godless man using a religion to advance his own purposes. Same thing with Stalin and same thing with Mussolini so my original point stands.

Also from that same source:

"Hitler did well in monastery school. He sang in the choir, found High Mass and other ceremonies intoxicating, and idolized priests. Impressed by their power, he at one time considered entering the priesthood."

So Hitler had these plans from childhood?:hmm:

I suggest you also read this (by James Murphy):

In George Orwell's 1984, it was stated, "Who controls the past controls neutralityture, who controls the present controls the past." Who is going to control the present-fundamentalism or freedom? History is being distorted by many preachers and politicians. They are heard on the airwaves condemning atheists and routinely claim Adolf Hitler was one.

Hitler was a Roman Catholic, baptized into that religio-political institution as an infant in Austria. He became a communicant and an altar boy in his youth and was confirmed as a "soldier of Christ" in at his mother’s wish on Whit Sunday 1904 at the Cathedral at Linz. Hitler still went to confession and communion in 1918. (from http://yearegods.wordpress.com/2008/...r-a-christian/ ) He himself wrote of that period of his life : "I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal". [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 1]
[ The most extensive article I have seen on Hitler's youth is http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar...er/boyhood.htm.]

Its worst doctrines never left him. He was steeped in its liturgy, which contained the words "perfidious Jew." This hateful statement was not removed until 1961. "Perfidy" means treachery. In his day, hatred of Jews was the norm. In great measure it was sponsored by two major religions of Germany, Catholicism and Lutheranism.

He greatly admired Martin Luther, who openly hated the Jews. Luther condemned the Catholic Church for its pretensions and corruption, but he supported the centuries of papal pogroms against the Jews. Luther said, "The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows, seven times higher than ordinary thieves," and "We ought to take revenge on the Jews and kill them." "Ungodly wretches" he called the Jews in his book, Table Talk.

Hitler seeking power, wrote in Mein Kampf, " . . . I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work." Years later, when in power, he quoted those same words in a Reichstag speech in 1938. Three years later he informed General Gerhart Engel: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." He never left the church, and the church never left him. Great literature was banned by his church, but his miserable Mein Kampf never appeared on the index of Forbidden Books. He was not excommunicated or even condemned by his church. Popes, in fact, contracted with Hitler and his fascist friends Franco and Mussolini, giving them veto power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain, and Italy. The three thugs agreed to surtax the Catholics of these countries and send the money to Rome in exchange for making sure the state could control the church.

Those who would make Hitler an atheist should turn their eyes to history books before they address their pews and microphones. Acclaimed Hitler biographer John Toland explains his heartlessness as follows: "Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite the detestation of its hierarchy, he carried within him its teaching that the Jews was the killer of god. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of god . . . "

Hitler's Germany amalgamated state with church. Soldiers of the Vermacht wore belt buckles inscribed with the following: "Gott mit uns" (God is with us). His troops were often sprinkled with holy water by the priests. It was a real (99%) Christian country whose citizens were indoctrinated by both state and church and blindly followed all authority figures, political and ecclesiastical.

Hitler, like some of the today's politicians and preachers, politicized "family values." He liked corporal punishment in home and school. Jesus prayers became mandatory in all schools under his administration. While abortion was illegal in pre-Hitler Germany, he took it to new depths of enforcement, requiring all doctors to report to the government the circumstances of all miscarriages. He openly despised homosexuality and criminalized it."

[August]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

So Hitler had these plans from childhood?:hmm:

So what? Correct me if i'm wrong SH but you were born a Muslim, no? Does that accident of birth or your family's plans for you automatically make you a believer, A "Mohammedean" as Skybird would put it, regardless of what your own heart and head tells you? Of course not, and nor should it. To be religious is to believe in a higher being, it's not just a membership card in a social organization.

Regardless of childhood fascinations with trappings and ceremony or later adult pandering to the church, the simple fact is that Hitler did not believe in the god of the religion he was born into. Your own website says plotted the betrayal and destruction of the same religion that you are arguing he was a believer of.

Now I know you hate religion and i certainly do not question either your motives or your "belief" (NPI) in your cause, but does that hate reach the point of denying such an obvious truth?, because that is the argument i see you making here.

Edit: fixed a missing quote tag.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Rilder

Not to offend but didn't Christianity play a major part in a bunch of wars called the "Crusades"

No offense ether, but if you knew your history, you would know it was the Muslims that started this. There were 5 crusades to rescue the lands that were taken, but this is a long story and outside the scope of this thread.

What do they teach in schools these days anyway? Not much i see. Maybe the Muslims have found a way to keep this out or twist it somehow?

-S

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

No offense ether, but if you knew your history, you would know it was the Muslims that started this. There were 5 crusades to rescue the lands that were taken, but this is a long story and outside the scope of this thread.

What do they teach in schools these days anyway? Not much i see. Maybe the Muslims have found a way to keep this out or twist it somehow?

-S

Actually, no. The First Crusade which sparked the others was caused by the Christians. They decided that they couldn't allow the blasphemy of Muslims to reach the ears of their people. Imams traveled the Europeans lands (came close to their borders, anyway), and preached the Quran. Intolerance is all it was.

Pope Urban II launched the First Crusade in 1095.

Pope Eugene III launched the Second Crusade in 1147.

The European Kings came together and launched the Third Crusade in 1189.

Pope (The-Not-So) Innocent III launched the Fourth Crusade in 1202.

Pope (Un) Honorius III launched the Fifth Crusade.

The Holy Roman Empire launched the Sixth Crusade.

France led the Seventh Crusade.

France led the Eighth Crusade.

England and France led the Ninth and final Crusade.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Actually, no. The First Crusade which sparked the others was caused by the Christians. They decided that they couldn't allow the blasphemy of Muslims to reach the ears of their people. Imams traveled the Europeans lands (came close to their borders, anyway), and preached the Quran. Intolerance is all it was.

Pope Urban II launched the First Crusade in 1095.

Pope Eugene III launched the Second Crusade in 1147.

The European Kings came together and launched the Third Crusade in 1189.

Pope (The-Not-So) Innocent III launched the Fourth Crusade in 1202.

Pope (Un) Honorius III launched the Fifth Crusade.

The Holy Roman Empire launched the Sixth Crusade.

France led the Seventh Crusade.

France led the Eighth Crusade.

England and France led the Ninth and final Crusade.

5 Major ones. The last were minor.

And no - you are wrong. The Muslims invaded what is now Spain, and they took over the holy lands as well.

-S

PS. Some history for you (since I obviously have to hold you hand):

The Crusades were a series of military campaigns during the time of Medieval England against the Muslims of the Middle East. In 1076, the Muslims had captured Jerusalem - the most holy of holy places for Christians. Jesus had been born in nearby Bethlehem and Jesus had spent most of his life in Jerusalem. He was crucified on Calvary Hill, also in Jerusalem. There was no more important place on Earth than Jerusalem for a true Christian which is why Christians called Jerusalem the "City of God".

However, Jerusalem was also extremely important for the Muslims as Muhammad, the founder of the Muslim faith, had been there and there was great joy in the Muslim world when Jerusalem was captured. A beautiful dome - called the Dome of the Rock - was built on the rock where Muhammad was said to have sat and prayed and it was so holy that no Muslim was allowed to tread on the rock or touch it when visiting the Dome.

Therefore the Christian fought to get Jerusalem back while the Muslims fought to keep Jerusalem. These wars were to last nearly 200 years

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Actually, no. The First Crusade which sparked the others was caused by the Christians. They decided that they couldn't allow the blasphemy of Muslims to reach the ears of their people. Imams traveled the Europeans lands (came close to their borders, anyway), and preached the Quran. Intolerance is all it was.

You are kidding us, yes? the spreading military drive of Islam and the taking of the former Judaic-Christian province of Judea of course had nothing to do with it, as had the military threatening to the North-West and Konstantinopel nothing to do with it as well.

Poor Islam, just suffered from the intolerance of those evil European stupid Christians. what do we learn from your version of history? IOf Islam expands aggressoiveoly, that is okay, and when others try to resist and defend against that expansion and try to take back what had been lost with the same aggressiveness, then it is not okay. islam may do, what others are not allowed to do.

Who had conquered the greater territories and occupied them for longer time: The Christians in the former Roman Christian provinces, or Islam in Southern, South-western, south-Eastern and Central Europe, and the roman provinces in northern Africa and the Middle East?

The typical double-.standards that you find so very often in islam, and the Quaran. On one page there is the candy and the honey, and some pages later the loud-sounding "BUT...!" gets explained that take the former sweet words back or put them into relations that chnage their meaning completely, and candy and honey suddenly turn into salt and vinegar. The first, the seeties, is given to declare any defense against Islam as injustice, and the second, the salty stuff, is used to press islamic agendas by force, declaring resistance to it illegal by the first.

Two tongues in Muhammad's mouth. At Medina he talked of peace and seize-fire - and one day later commited genocide against those whom he promised both. The only reason for that was that his narcissistic ego felt offended that their scholars were brighter and better educated than himself.