Political thread discussion

[Kapt Z]

I'd say if it's ok with Neal it's ok with me.

[Zachstar]

Frankly I do not like the politics because they have turned this forum into something to come to when Obama makes a fart or McCain makes a bad joke. For some they perceive that if they flood the forum with topics of political nature with their obvious bias. It will somehow stick with the entire community.

The fact is tho. That if we can fire a torpedo we most likely have decided who to vote for LONG ago. And those who are undecided are not going to suddenly go to one candidate because of some loudmouth on a forum.

Want to talk about the F-35 compared to future drones? Go find the topic after it is buried in "Obama = Socialist" threads.

Want to discuss some awesome new video card? Well you just have to fight with that thread that says "McCain = Racism"

There are 2 major forums where the camps can go to.

Free Republic for the the Right Wing
Democratic Underground for the Left Wing

Now one may ask. "Well its just some weeks until the election..." "Why do it now?" Well there are multiple elections and multiple bills that will happen in the next 2 years.

[Fincuan]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Political threads on this forum are more often than not the Subsim.com equivalent of the Jerry Springer show and we'd be better off without. IMO.

PD

Amen to that, and the same used to apply to global warming threads(which reminds me that we haven't had one of those in a while)

I don't agree with a complete ban though, but a subforum just for them would be a good idea. GT has basically been a no-go area for me since it started filling with all the "Teh candidate sucks"-threads. Even putting the most active "contributors" on ignore doesn't help much since their threads remain visible in the list.

[Schöneboom]

IMO, the proliferation of political threads has definitely made the GT forum a less appealing place to visit. I would not favor a total ban, but I would approve moving all political threads to another sub-forum, so GT can lighten up.

I miss those Cheezburger Cat photos already!

[CCIP]

I think the main thing is avoiding descending to the level of venom and general bad-spiritness. I think arguments and debates are a great way of community-building, as long as they're within bounds.

On the other hand, the other thing that could really use being reminded to people is that they should really remember what this community is about. I'm actually against a separate political forum because it'd only give the topics more focus and make people dwell on them more. This community nor any specific part of it should ever be about politics. Or the environment. Or big-time sabre-rattling of any kind. I think if people come here specifically for that, they should really reconsider why they're at Subsim in the first place. There's better forums for politics than this - but let's not kill the chance to have a good community outlet for these things, too.

Also, while GT can be a more persistent headache if one takes it very seriously, I'm glad to say that I never found it more problematic from the administration perspective than the much nastier things that happened between modding teams in the last couple of years - those were a lot more difficult, but I'm also glad at the approach Neal & co. take to those, mediating as much as moderating.

Also, don't overestimate the "power and glory" of the mods. They're members too, and most of us have very limited jurisdictions that Neal assigned us. I think all the mods I know have been extremely well-behaved, though at the same time I don't think it's fair to expect them to remain aloof of everything, especialy in parts of the forums totally outside their moderating area. Mods are human too!

[Skybird]

"Alles für Deutschland"...??? A Nazi swastika attached close to that slogan...?



Golden Rivet, have you ever spend a thought on what you were doing when designing your sig? I assume you were just easy-minded, but dozens of millions turned out to be the answer to "alles für Deutschland" - they got killed. and have you ever thought about how a KZ survivor must feel if meeting you displaying carelessly the symbols of the murderous horror he survived and his family not? Not to forget that you can be understood to be a Nazi yourself when showing Nazi symbols so carelessly?

Dresses make people. So be careful how you dress.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Fincuan

Amen to that, and the same used to apply to global warming threads(which reminds me that we haven't had one of those in a while)

I don't agree with a complete ban though, but a subforum just for them would be a good idea. GT has basically been a no-go area for me since it started filling with all the "Teh candidate sucks"-threads. Even putting the most active "contributors" on ignore doesn't help much since their threads remain visible in the list.

We have considered a "political/religous/global warming/I-have-an-agenda-and-I-cannot-stop-thinking-about-it!" sub forum but then that would have to be moderated by someone too. The key to keeping the repititous threads to a minimum is not to REPLY to them, they would sink to page 2 pretty quickly if everyone held their nose and passed on by.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Skybird

"Alles für Deutschland"...??? A Nazi swastika attached close to that slogan...?



Golden Rivet, have you ever spend a thought on what you were doing when designing your sig? I assume you were just easy-minded, but dozens of millions turned out to be the answer to "alles für Deutschland" - they got killed. and have you ever thought about how a KZ survivor must feel if meeting you displaying carelessly the symbols of the murderous horror he survived and his family not? Not to forget that you can be understood to be a Nazi yourself when showing Nazi symbols so carelessly?

Dresses make people. So be careful how you dress.

relax skybird... its just an SH3 Sig i assure you im a sheep in wolves clothing hahaha

besides - according to my German friend that statement signifies allegiance to Germany - NOT "the party" and is thus a slogan of patriotism which can be viewed as separate from nazism.... hence the reason i used it rather than something like "heil hitler" or "alles fur der furher" - THAT would be naziism

some will be offended by it i suppose... but im an American - if im not offending someone - im doing something wrong.

EDIT: the allegiance to Germany thing is what i was going for because my sh3 persona "Jon Wintergarten" is simply a kriegsmarine officer doing his job who is a loyal patriot of his country... NOT a loyal follower of Hitler.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

they would sink to page 2 pretty quickly if everyone held their nose and passed on by.

That's a big if.

Seriously though I agree with the above common sense approach.

And people should remember that there are other categories on the Subsim forums such as SHIII, SHIV, Dangerous Waters, Sub and Naval discussions, Helosim and Flight Sims, Tank Sims and others that could be contributed to by members. Sometimes I think that some people know nothing but the GT forum.

[Fincuan]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

The key to keeping the repititous threads to a minimum is not to REPLY to them, they would sink to page 2 pretty quickly if everyone held their nose and passed on by.

Agreed.

Hopefully it'll calm down after the election, although I have my fears that if the "wrong" candidate wins we're not going get a moments rest.

On another note I just noticed that PayPal finally allows one to transfer money from a bank account to the PayPal account. I don't know how long this has been so, but anyway a donation is incoming
Eveyone else who has so far used the "I don't have a credit card"-excuse take note!

[Onkel Neal]

Thanks, I appreciate that.

For me, no matter who wins the election, I will support him. I may oppose some/all of his policies as time passes, but at least initially I will reserve judgment until he has a chance to begin.

Also, I have moved a few "naval" topics to the Naval Topics forum. If your topic was moved, don't take it as a slap at all, I'm just trying to establish the Naval Topics forum as a place to discuss normal stuff that does not belong here in GT.

Neal

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

relax skybird... its just an SH3 Sig i assure you im a sheep in wolves clothing hahaha

besides - according to my German friend that statement signifies allegiance to Germany - NOT "the party" and is thus a slogan of patriotism which can be viewed as separate from nazism.... hence the reason i used it rather than something like "heil hitler" or "alles fur der furher" - THAT would be naziism

some will be offended by it i suppose... but im an American - if im not offending someone - im doing something wrong.

EDIT: the allegiance to Germany thing is what i was going for because my sh3 persona "Jon Wintergarten" is simply a kriegsmarine officer doing his job who is a loyal patriot of his country... NOT a loyal follower of Hitler.

Alles für Deutschland? Really "alles"? You remember the lines: "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles, über alles in der Welt?" See the linking in meaning? These lines are now not only deleted from the national anthem, they are also forbidden. Only the second of three verses form the official german anthem nowadays. And that is a good thing, and a good text. the other two are ouaäh...

Well, in some things, Anglosaxons and most other Europeans are definitely very different.

Just because we had small contact before prevented me from being harsh here. I assumed that you are no Nazi, but mindless "only". Nevertheless, if yopu would have been a stranger, you would be listed as a Neonazi in my books now. maybe that motivates a second thought on it. BTW. three quarters of the german U-Bootä-Männer got killed during the war. especially the U-Boot-part of the Marine hated the Nazis very intensely. You certainly know the movie "Das Boot". you remember the character of that text-book Nazi-German appearing. And you also recall that he was isolated and avoided by the rest of the crew, and the Käptn secretely disliked and hated him completely - and the political leadership as well.

Now try to imagine what this Kaleu would have told you if he would have seen you with a flag like that. Are you sure that you are matching reality with your self-description of how you mean it - or are you maybe just serving a self-constructed cliche: your cliche about things, that is?

As I said, I find you not to be a Nazi, but mindless. This is no historic docu that gets shot. This is a game, and your sig is part of your very private behavior. that means it is being connected to you personally, not to a function in an educating project, or something like that.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

We're going to start merging these threads. After all, they are all started by the same 5~7 people.

Exactly, and those handfull are not going to convince one another or anyone else for that matter to change their point of view.

A virtual example of futility.

This is the reason I abstain from any further political discussion.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

besides - according to my German friend that statement signifies allegiance to Germany - NOT "the party"

If it wasn't for the great big swastika I would have given you the benefit of the doubt.

You can't really claim that your sig isn't about Nazism when it has a swastika on it that is so big it doesn't all fit on.

[GoldenRivet]

take it as you will gentlemen. I'll say no more on this issue other than this;

A lot of people play with the swastika in game - so what of them?

I play a subsim which is based upon the activities of World War II Germany... i have a "character" in SH3 that i play as in my career as many other SH3 players have too... Some of us have gone so far as to develop a back story to the "character" and mine (Jon Wintergarten) is one of deep devotion to national pride and patriotism who despises the fact that his proud nation is under the leadership of a murderous blood thirsty baboon... yet - he cannot escape that fact since everything around him is coated in nazi symbology. - his papwerwork - the flags - even the very medals which hang on his chest! - he cannot escape it.

To me that is what the sig symbolizes... even though you are an ordinary soldier doing your job - your day to day life is encrouched upon by the "party"... and all you can do about it is try to remind yourself that you are doing it "all for germany" aka "Alles for Deutschland"

I'll change my sig if so instructed by a moderator... otherwise you may all just "pucker up".

that being said - my sig will probably change half a dozen times between now and New Years day!

what i really wanted - but lacked the time and ability to do - was a pin up style lady stooped over in an engine room with a bit of her arse showing as she looked for the "golden rivet".

now - back on topic please?