Torpedo Spread Angle Calculator

Matilda · 10-13-08, 12:07 PM

I got your PM and DL'ed the file. Went over the examples and have a decent grasp of how it works. I'll let you know what kind of results I get in game.

Nisgeis · 10-13-08, 03:43 PM

Looking forward to feedback. One really useful thing is the maximum torpedo run time. You can use this to see if your shots will actually reach the target. I was a bit surprised how low some of the run times were for maximum range. It'll cut down on some wastage I'm sure.

Rockin Robbins · 10-13-08, 06:40 PM

Working out some glitches that I can't explain. Did two cruises without seeing a single target. Rerolling pristeen SH4 and reapplying all mods. Love the device! Too bad SH4 doesn't lend itself to making an in-game pulldown like SH3 does. A slide rule with no moving parts that you can use without drawing on it. It's great!

breadcatcher101 · 10-13-08, 06:43 PM

I thank you as well. I'll see how good I am with it. Is this by chance what was sometimes called a banjo?

Nisgeis · 10-14-08, 03:10 AM

I'm not sure what this is called, but it's not a banjo. A "Banjo" is the name given to the 'Torpedo Angle Solver Mk. VIII' and it is described, with drawings here:

http://hnsa.org/doc/banjo/index.htm

As you can see, it looks a bit like a banjo.

The Is/Was (Submarine attack course finder) is described here:

http://hnsa.org/doc/attackfinder/index.htm

peewee · 10-18-08, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breadcatcher101

I thank you as well. I'll see how good I am with it. Is this by chance what was sometimes called a banjo?

Nah, a banjo is a British Army sandwich...e.g.

squaddie......."give us two bacon banjos and a cuppa please luv"

NAAFI girl..........." 'ere ya go, that'll be a quid"

squaddie........"Fanks"

Nisgeis · 10-20-08, 10:09 AM

Second and hopefully final version has gone out to those who requested it. This one should be good.

Hitman · 10-22-08, 08:47 AM

All right, the tool works as expected and I really can't add much to what I said before. The new scales help much with the shorter/medium shooting distances, which are the most used ones and everything else is OK. If anything, more subdivisions in the torpedo run time to run length would be nice, but there really isn't much more space for it :hmm:

Anyway, I suspect that a slide ruler would be the perfect tool here. If you can think about something along those lines, I *think* that I can provide a dirty but effective method of bringing it in-game, using a fixed background image and then a draggable one you can move along the first.

If you are happy with this as final version, just tell me and I will do an in-game version ASAP.

Cheers

Pisces · 10-14-08, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Looking forward to feedback. One really useful thing is the maximum torpedo run time. You can use this to see if your shots will actually reach the target. I was a bit surprised how low some of the run times were for maximum range. It'll cut down on some wastage I'm sure.

If you want more feedback, why not make your beta test open so more people can download it. I don't have Sh4 on my pc but I'm allways a sucker for these kind of tools.

Matilda · 10-14-08, 01:06 PM

So far I like the system. It is better than just throwing torpedos away (ones that never have a chance to hit). I am successful with it at shorter distances (no big suprise there). I have been trying it at extreme ranges, right out at max run, and wish the measuring gradient was more precise. Well I'm thinking that is more a problem of how the game is set up than the tool. I'll keep using it and see if I can come up with an idea, because even if the tool has a finer gradient how could I translate that into the game? Thanks for the oportunity to help. I'll be in touch.

Nisgeis · 10-14-08, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matilda

So far I like the system. It is better than just throwing torpedos away (ones that never have a chance to hit). I am successful with it at shorter distances (no big suprise there). I have been trying it at extreme ranges, right out at max run, and wish the measuring gradient was more precise. Well I'm thinking that is more a problem of how the game is set up than the tool. I'll keep using it and see if I can come up with an idea, because even if the tool has a finer gradient how could I translate that into the game? Thanks for the oportunity to help. I'll be in touch.

Which measurement scale? I'm going to be making the 'Torpedo Track Angle' into 5 degree increments, instead of 10 degrees. Would that help?

I think the longest range shot that was successful was about 4,500 yards, any at longer range weren't succesful, the torpedo run is very long and any innacuracy is magnified. If you aren't sure of your data you should increase your spreads.

The spread calculator will give you the angular target length, so if you look at the value of 900 foot target length with a torpedo run of 3,000 yds, at a track angle of 90 degrees, it says the angular target length is 6 degrees. So if you did fire three torpedoes, a 100% coverage would be 3 degrees right, 0 degrees for MOT, 3 degrees right. But that would give you a situation where a slight error would make either of the 3 degree torpedoes miss. So, if you have a really good solution, go for a 75% spread to get hits along most of the length, with a bit of give. If you are less confident, use 100%, which will give you 2 out of 3 hits of your data is resonable. If your data is shaky, use more coverage, 150% or 200%.

Using a higher coverage, you'll get less hits for certain, but you are more likely to get some hits. I'm wondering if I should put in some sort of coverage calculator, so you don't have to work this stuff out.

I'm also considering removing the torpedo run lengths higher than 4,000 yds as it's probably not a good idea to be shooting at that range... Hmmm, I'll have a think about all this stuff. The feedback is great, as it makes me think.

Hitman gave me some good ideas as well.

Hitman · 10-14-08, 02:11 PM

One thing I forgot to mention in the PM (Now that I see this is being discussed in public): The vertical scale goes up to 1200 feet, but I don't think that any WW2 ships was that big. In my opinion you could limit it vertically to 800 feet, that's enough to get a good salvo at the Yamato. By doing that and also eliminating the lines for extreme ranges you could expand the table to a bigger size and allow for better precision and extra lines without cluttering it

What format are you working with? tga, BMP? :hmm: I think I could put it in the game if you can provide a graphic in one of those formats.

Nisgeis · 10-14-08, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

One thing I forgot to mention in the PM (Now that I see this is being discussed in public): The vertical scale goes up to 1200 feet, but I don't think that any WW2 ships was that big. In my opinion you could limit it vertically to 800 feet, that's enough to get a good salvo at the Yamato. By doing that and also eliminating the lines for extreme ranges you could expand the table to a bigger size and allow for better precision and extra lines without cluttering it

Yes, I wondered about that myself, however the first version is a replica of what the Torsk has - and that goes up to 1,200 feet. You'd save a small amount of space by taking it down, but you'd still need the first part for the higher angle shots or shorter craft. Thinking about this made me spot a mistake and I need to check something :hmm:.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

What format are you working with? tga, BMP? :hmm: I think I could put it in the game if you can provide a graphic in one of those formats.

Corel Draw, as i can use it and it's vector graphics, so it can be easily scaled without messing it all up. It also produces very small PDF files

Nisgeis · 10-14-08, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pisces

If you want more feedback, why not make your beta test open so more people can download it. I don't have Sh4 on my pc but I'm allways a sucker for these kind of tools.

It's open to anyone who wants to have a look. My working theory is if someone can't bring themselves to post 'I'll test this', then they are unlikely to post any feedback

.

Pisces · 10-15-08, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pisces

If you want more feedback, why not make your beta test open so more people can download it. I don't have Sh4 on my pc but I'm allways a sucker for these kind of tools.

It's open to anyone who wants to have a look. My working theory is if someone can't bring themselves to post 'I'll test this', then they are unlikely to post any feedback

.

Fair enough. Hitman's screendump made me even more curious on how to use this thing. Let me have a look at it please.

As for the math, the formula in your 1st message works if 2 torpedo's should hit at 1/3rds of the targets angular length on bow and stern side. I really need a description on how to use that table/graph to compare this with it. It makes little sense to me right now. Also, just to make sure we have the same terminology: trackangle= complement of AOB (=180-AOB) at hit-time?

10-13-08, 12:07 PM	#1
Matilda Seaman Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 37 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	Recieved I got your PM and DL'ed the file. Went over the examples and have a decent grasp of how it works. I'll let you know what kind of results I get in game. __________________

10-13-08, 03:43 PM	#2
Nisgeis Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,909 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 11	Looking forward to feedback. One really useful thing is the maximum torpedo run time. You can use this to see if your shots will actually reach the target. I was a bit surprised how low some of the run times were for maximum range. It'll cut down on some wastage I'm sure. __________________ -------------------------------- This space left intentionally blank.

10-13-08, 06:40 PM	#3
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Working out some glitches that I can't explain. Did two cruises without seeing a single target. Rerolling pristeen SH4 and reapplying all mods. Love the device! Too bad SH4 doesn't lend itself to making an in-game pulldown like SH3 does. A slide rule with no moving parts that you can use without drawing on it. It's great! __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

10-14-08, 03:10 AM	#5
Nisgeis Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,909 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 11	I'm not sure what this is called, but it's not a banjo. A "Banjo" is the name given to the 'Torpedo Angle Solver Mk. VIII' and it is described, with drawings here: http://hnsa.org/doc/banjo/index.htm As you can see, it looks a bit like a banjo. The Is/Was (Submarine attack course finder) is described here: http://hnsa.org/doc/attackfinder/index.htm __________________ -------------------------------- This space left intentionally blank.

10-20-08, 10:09 AM	#7
Nisgeis Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,909 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 11	Second and hopefully final version has gone out to those who requested it. This one should be good. __________________ -------------------------------- This space left intentionally blank.

10-13-08, 06:43 PM	#4
breadcatcher101 Captain Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 546 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I thank you as well. I'll see how good I am with it. Is this by chance what was sometimes called a banjo?

10-22-08, 08:47 AM	#8
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	All right, the tool works as expected and I really can't add much to what I said before. The new scales help much with the shorter/medium shooting distances, which are the most used ones and everything else is OK. If anything, more subdivisions in the torpedo run time to run length would be nice, but there really isn't much more space for it :hmm: Anyway, I suspect that a slide ruler would be the perfect tool here. If you can think about something along those lines, I think that I can provide a dirty but effective method of bringing it in-game, using a fixed background image and then a draggable one you can move along the first. If you are happy with this as final version, just tell me and I will do an in-game version ASAP. Cheers __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

10-14-08, 01:06 PM	#10
Matilda Seaman Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 37 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	Initial impressions So far I like the system. It is better than just throwing torpedos away (ones that never have a chance to hit). I am successful with it at shorter distances (no big suprise there). I have been trying it at extreme ranges, right out at max run, and wish the measuring gradient was more precise. Well I'm thinking that is more a problem of how the game is set up than the tool. I'll keep using it and see if I can come up with an idea, because even if the tool has a finer gradient how could I translate that into the game? Thanks for the oportunity to help. I'll be in touch. __________________

10-14-08, 02:11 PM	#12
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	One thing I forgot to mention in the PM (Now that I see this is being discussed in public): The vertical scale goes up to 1200 feet, but I don't think that any WW2 ships was that big. In my opinion you could limit it vertically to 800 feet, that's enough to get a good salvo at the Yamato. By doing that and also eliminating the lines for extreme ranges you could expand the table to a bigger size and allow for better precision and extra lines without cluttering it What format are you working with? tga, BMP? :hmm: I think I could put it in the game if you can provide a graphic in one of those formats. __________________ One day I will return to sea ...