Sticker Shock

clive bradbury · 10-06-08, 11:47 AM

It's free here. Many Americans love to critiscise the NHS. That's fine, just keep paying your bills...

DeepIron · 10-06-08, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clive bradbury

It's free here. Many Americans love to critiscise the NHS. That's fine, just keep paying your bills...

Hey Clive and Mikhayl... I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm really curious... Seeing as no such thing as a "free lunch" your NHS must be funded from somewhere...

The most common kind of national funding is taxes. What kind of tax rate do you folks have? Or does the money come from somewhere else? :hmm:

clive bradbury · 10-06-08, 11:57 AM

Hi Deepiron,

in theory from so-called 'national insurance', which is really just an income tax by another name, in that it is a mandatory stoppage, but this does not cover it all, so mostly from income tax. Not sure, but stoppages are roughly the same percentage here as in the US, I think, maybe slightly less as our equivalent of your state taxes are not quite as high.

DeepIron · 10-06-08, 12:03 PM

Ah... thx Clive. I looked up "national insurance" in the wikipedia and read through it. For the most part, it sounds like a good system...

I had my appendix out 3 years ago to the tune of $10,500, all out my pocket because my health insurance carrier wouldn't pay (I'll spare everyone THAT story).

I've often wondered why the US, with one of the strongest economies around (until lately) didn't implement a system like that in Britain... :hmm:

Quote:

The over costs are crazy and i guess much of it deals with malpractice insurance and to cover the costs of those who do not pay and have no insurance. Yep, no free lunches, the money has to come from somewhere.

Not to mention the terribly inflated prices of materials... I mean really, $2.50 a pill for Tylenol? etc...

Tchocky · 10-06-08, 12:06 PM

Similiar-ish here.
If you're on low income or over 70, or receiving welfare, you have a medical card, which means you don't pay medical bills. Doctor visits, drugs, hospital visits, everything free except dental care.
If you're above that threshold, you pay 66 euro per day of hospital stay, no more than 660 in a single year. The care received is free, you're paying for the space you take up, in a sense. Medication costs are your own responsibility, up to 90 per month, after that you qualify for funds.
Private health insurance covers about half the population, usual costs between 5-900 per year, with another third on the medical card.

Healthcare is improving after a log period of underinvestment and stagnation. Think were about halfway down the EU league table.

clive bradbury · 10-06-08, 12:12 PM

Note that not everything is free on the NHS, though. You have to pay for prescriptions (although this is soon to change for patients with long-term illnesses), and a proportion towards dental care.

Obviously it is not perfect, as waiting lists can be long, especially for non-urgent cases. Support for serious conditions like cancer, though, is pretty rapid.

Of course for non-urgent stuff there is the private care option. There is also a rather dodgy word-around waiting lists, too. If you pay for a private initial consultation with a surgeon (most do both private and NHS work), which costs about £200, he will then do your operation on the NHS (for free), but bump you up his waiting list. Usually saves you several months of waiting for the sake of £200, which sounds pretty good to me, if a mite corrupt.

UnderseaLcpl · 10-06-08, 12:56 PM

I'll stick with my company healthcare plan. $140 a month, $15 copay, price stays the same for an whether I get married or not, and no matter how many kids I might have.

Let's see the government top that!

It's pretty well-known that countries with socialized healthcare don't have the same quality that the U.S. does. Of course, the U.S. spends more on healthcare as a percentage of GNP than other countries do, but a large part of that is the state's fault. About $700 billion a year just for Medicare, Medicaid, and the related administrative and implementation costs.

That's not even counting how excessive "fairness" regulations on insurance companies drive up the costs. Many of those exsist only at the state level, but the Feds do their share. Things like mandatory enrollment of at-risk persons, price controls, policy restrictions and taxation all drive the costs up.

We wouldn't want the government involved in healthcare for the same reason they shouldn't be involved in the retirement system.
If the government were to step in and control the healthcare system, you can bet that in a few years it would end up looking like the social security system.

I wouldn't support mandatory health insurance either. For one thing, it will inevitably lead to the state controlling the healthcare system, and for another, it's none of their damn business.

We're not getting a lot for our 2 trillion dollar health and welfare budget right now, and I doubt we would do much better with a state system that would probably cost at least 3 times that much.

edit- I almost forgot, I hope you're doing well now Frame

kranz · 10-06-08, 12:33 PM

in Poland it could be either free of charge or cost you life. Depends on the surgeon.

Frame57 · 10-06-08, 12:01 PM

I am thankful I was able to cover cost and have insurance too. a Canadian friend of mine told me that in Canada it gets worse the older you are. Lets say at about 45 years of age you find yourself in need of a coronary bypass, they will do it, but if you are 75, then you may be denied and will have to pay 100%. I guess they feel that the 45 year old will still be contributing to the economy as opposed the the 75 year old. The over costs are crazy and i guess much of it deals with malpractice insurance and to cover the costs of those who do not pay and have no insurance. Yep, no free lunches, the money has to come from somewhere.

Onkel Neal · 10-06-08, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clive bradbury

It's free here. Many Americans love to critiscise the NHS. That's fine, just keep paying your bills...

Nothing is free. You're paying for it, one way or another.

Blacklight · 10-06-08, 09:40 PM

When I was in the hospital for my heart sugury, I got whopped with an almost $10,000 bill including two ambulence rides. I WISH that bill had been 3200 dollars !! It took me FOREVER and pretty much bankrupted me to pay that thing off. And then three years after that, I had to go back in for more heart surgury !

August · 10-06-08, 10:57 PM

Last year 70k for the installation of two stents in my right coronary artery and two nights in the hospital for observation/recovery. I paid 1k deductible, insurance paid the rest. They've also been paying 80% of my related medications.

Molon Labe · 10-06-08, 11:54 PM

The cost is clearly a problem and something has to be done about it.

Both candidates have websites.

Both candidates explain their health care plan on their websites.

Both candidates mention that costs are a problem.

One candidate's plan includes elements intended to reduce costs; the other's does not and instead talks about ways to transfer the costs to the taxpayer.

This election should be Easymode.

10-06-08, 12:06 PM	#5
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Similiar-ish here. If you're on low income or over 70, or receiving welfare, you have a medical card, which means you don't pay medical bills. Doctor visits, drugs, hospital visits, everything free except dental care. If you're above that threshold, you pay 66 euro per day of hospital stay, no more than 660 in a single year. The care received is free, you're paying for the space you take up, in a sense. Medication costs are your own responsibility, up to 90 per month, after that you qualify for funds. Private health insurance covers about half the population, usual costs between 5-900 per year, with another third on the medical card. Healthcare is improving after a log period of underinvestment and stagnation. Think were about halfway down the EU league table. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

10-06-08, 12:56 PM	#7
UnderseaLcpl Silent Hunter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Storming the beaches! Posts: 4,254 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I'll stick with my company healthcare plan. $140 a month, $15 copay, price stays the same for an whether I get married or not, and no matter how many kids I might have. Let's see the government top that! It's pretty well-known that countries with socialized healthcare don't have the same quality that the U.S. does. Of course, the U.S. spends more on healthcare as a percentage of GNP than other countries do, but a large part of that is the state's fault. About $700 billion a year just for Medicare, Medicaid, and the related administrative and implementation costs. That's not even counting how excessive "fairness" regulations on insurance companies drive up the costs. Many of those exsist only at the state level, but the Feds do their share. Things like mandatory enrollment of at-risk persons, price controls, policy restrictions and taxation all drive the costs up. We wouldn't want the government involved in healthcare for the same reason they shouldn't be involved in the retirement system. If the government were to step in and control the healthcare system, you can bet that in a few years it would end up looking like the social security system. I wouldn't support mandatory health insurance either. For one thing, it will inevitably lead to the state controlling the healthcare system, and for another, it's none of their damn business. We're not getting a lot for our 2 trillion dollar health and welfare budget right now, and I doubt we would do much better with a state system that would probably cost at least 3 times that much. edit- I almost forgot, I hope you're doing well now Frame __________________ I stole this sig from Task Force

10-06-08, 09:40 PM	#11
Blacklight Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,507 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	When I was in the hospital for my heart sugury, I got whopped with an almost $10,000 bill including two ambulence rides. I WISH that bill had been 3200 dollars !! It took me FOREVER and pretty much bankrupted me to pay that thing off. And then three years after that, I had to go back in for more heart surgury ! __________________ Be my friend or be a mushroom cloud. "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes !"

10-06-08, 10:57 PM	#12
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Last year 70k for the installation of two stents in my right coronary artery and two nights in the hospital for observation/recovery. I paid 1k deductible, insurance paid the rest. They've also been paying 80% of my related medications. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

10-06-08, 11:54 PM	#13
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	The cost is clearly a problem and something has to be done about it. Both candidates have websites. Both candidates explain their health care plan on their websites. Both candidates mention that costs are a problem. One candidate's plan includes elements intended to reduce costs; the other's does not and instead talks about ways to transfer the costs to the taxpayer. This election should be Easymode. __________________

10-06-08, 11:47 AM	#1
clive bradbury Captain Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: stoke-on-trent, UK Posts: 492 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	It's free here. Many Americans love to critiscise the NHS. That's fine, just keep paying your bills...

10-06-08, 11:57 AM	#3
clive bradbury Captain Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: stoke-on-trent, UK Posts: 492 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	Hi Deepiron, in theory from so-called 'national insurance', which is really just an income tax by another name, in that it is a mandatory stoppage, but this does not cover it all, so mostly from income tax. Not sure, but stoppages are roughly the same percentage here as in the US, I think, maybe slightly less as our equivalent of your state taxes are not quite as high.

10-06-08, 12:12 PM	#6
clive bradbury Captain Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: stoke-on-trent, UK Posts: 492 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	Note that not everything is free on the NHS, though. You have to pay for prescriptions (although this is soon to change for patients with long-term illnesses), and a proportion towards dental care. Obviously it is not perfect, as waiting lists can be long, especially for non-urgent cases. Support for serious conditions like cancer, though, is pretty rapid. Of course for non-urgent stuff there is the private care option. There is also a rather dodgy word-around waiting lists, too. If you pay for a private initial consultation with a surgeon (most do both private and NHS work), which costs about £200, he will then do your operation on the NHS (for free), but bump you up his waiting list. Usually saves you several months of waiting for the sake of £200, which sounds pretty good to me, if a mite corrupt.

10-06-08, 12:33 PM	#8
kranz The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 1,430 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	in Poland it could be either free of charge or cost you life. Depends on the surgeon.

10-06-08, 12:01 PM	#9
Frame57 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: 1300 feet on the crapper Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I am thankful I was able to cover cost and have insurance too. a Canadian friend of mine told me that in Canada it gets worse the older you are. Lets say at about 45 years of age you find yourself in need of a coronary bypass, they will do it, but if you are 75, then you may be denied and will have to pay 100%. I guess they feel that the 45 year old will still be contributing to the economy as opposed the the 75 year old. The over costs are crazy and i guess much of it deals with malpractice insurance and to cover the costs of those who do not pay and have no insurance. Yep, no free lunches, the money has to come from somewhere.