Wall street bailout plan defeated in the House.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

@AVG Maybe I should have phrased that differently. There are a few trying to do the right thing but, percentage wise, there aren't very many. It's just not how the current Washington, DC works. In the current DC, doing the right thing just isn't the right thing.

That and I'm a little jaded against politicians in general I think they should all be lined up against a wall and given a good spanking. Oh wait, they'd probably enjoy that too much:rotfl:

I agree that there are few that are attempting to do the right thing but they are far out numbered by those that court the lobbyists and big business. It is all about the dollar and what house page you can text and have lunch with...this is were the spanking comes in :rotfl: Barney Frank comes to mind.

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by Skybird

40% of Democrats voted against, I read yesterday - but two thirds of the Republicans.

On a side-note, this of course is a bad blow to the government as well - to be let down not by the opposition, but by one's own party.

You are correct, but look at why they voted against it. The bill was either hinky enough that 40% of the Democrats did not feel comfortable with it, or maybe the Pelosi speech pissed more people off (even in her party) then they would admit. They needed only 12 more Yes voted to pass the bill. The Democrats could run the whole thing by themselfs, but yet refuse too.
Also, please note, that apparently the VOTERS ( the american public) are against the plan. They literally flooded the Congress guys with mail and phone calls that they do not want the bail out.
Furthermore, Pelosi went through the ranks and allowed people to vote against it because they are up for re-election.
And 12 of Barney Frank people who are on his commity (House Finance Services Commity)voted, with Pelosi's permission, against the bill. The House Finance Service Commity oversees Fanny May and Freddie Mac.

They claim because they want to involve the other party, yet you have people like Pelosi holding an incredible stupid speech right before the vote. The Democrats are a bunch of chicken chits that are to afraid to take the blame if their bail out fails, yet ignore other viable options.
Apperantly there is a plan from the Republicans that would not involve any or just a small amount of tax payer money, but so far the Democrats have refused it.
Taxpayer money is not the solutuon to everything, imho.

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by Thomen

You are correct, but look at why they voted against it. The bill was either hinky enough that 40% of the Democrats did not feel comfortable with it, or maybe the Pelosi speech pissed more people off (even in her party) then they would admit. They needed only 12 more Yes voted to pass the bill. The Democrats could run the whole thing by themselfs, but yet refuse too.
Also, please note, that apparently the VOTERS ( the american public) are against the plan. They literally flooded the Congress guys with mail and phone calls that they do not want the bail out.
Furthermore, Pelosi went through the ranks and allowed people to vote against it because they are up for re-election.
And 12 of Barney Frank people who are on his commity (House Finance Services Commity)voted, with Pelosi's permission, against the bill. The House Finance Service Commity oversees Fanny May and Freddie Mac.

They claim because they want to involve the other party, yet you have people like Pelosi holding an incredible stupid speech right before the vote. The Democrats are a bunch of chicken chits that are to afraid to take the blame if their bail out fails, yet ignore other viable options.
Apperantly there is a plan from the Republicans that would not involve any or just a small amount of tax payer money, but so far the Democrats have refused it.
Taxpayer money is not the solutuon to everything, imho.

you're saying that republican senators (or whatever) are so stupid that they'll vote to willfully hurt the nation against their beliefs, intentions and instincts, because they are pissed at what a democrat says?

You guys are in trouble if so.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

you're saying that republican senators (or whatever) are so stupid that they'll vote to willfully hurt the nation against their beliefs, intentions and instincts, because they are pissed at what a democrat says?

You guys are in trouble if so.

Claiming that Pelosi's speech is what turned the Republican is grossly over-rated. Just her mere presense is enough to turn a vote. Really, the first bills sucked. Even the Dems see that. Rushing to cut a check without any thought is the wrong way to go. Has any other avenue been walked other than cutting a fat check? It takes congress months to pass legislation and usually it is full of holes. Now we are going to cut a deal in under 4 days? This one will be full of black holes!

[TDK1044]

You can't have a system where you privatize profit and socialize loss. And that's what was being offered.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

You can't have a system where you privatize profit and socialize loss. And that's what was being offered.

If it were asked to be put in a nutshell... you nailed it TDK That is exactly what is happening.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

You can't have a system where you privatize profit and socialize loss. And that's what was being offered.

Very well put.

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Can we re-join the Crown and use the Pound?

Join The EURO I'd say,As the Arab Companys still control the Price of Oil which in itself controls the cost of goods,I blame the Oil Companys,Could we ever predict Diesel would now be more costly than Petrol?Stock markets did,The whole Blame has got to go to the Oil Companys,Whoever,Wherever They are Based,Its The Future Of Our Children,We must Protect,All Over The World,Maybe concentrating Our resourses on Say Like Africa,Poverty Stricked Countrys,Helping Them To Make Food & to Industrialise Them,Would Ease The Worlds Burden On Supply And Demand,A Structure the EU,Is Now Looking at,Lets Hope The Right Decisions are made,Whenever,

[AVGWarhawk]

Here is the nice part...stocks, buy low and sell high. Right now there is a fire sale going on at Wall Street. People will buy low as of now and hopefully purchase good stocks that look promising. The stock market will correct itself. Let the banks go bankrupt.


Also, the Savings and Loans crisis of 1987....did we survive? Sure the hell did. We will survive this without a bailout.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Also, the Savings and Loans crisis of 1987....did we survive? Sure the hell did. We will survive this without a bailout.

That was a completly different situation no where near the magnitude of what is happening right now. In that scandle the banks did not hold Billions of dollars of worthless loans. Loans which will never really be re-paid.

The problem is now that there is no money left to loan, without loans buisness grinds to a halt. Without buisness the stock market fails. When the stock market fails my IRA goes to hell in a handbasket.

Yes of course we will survive it but it will be very very painfull. Keep your resume's up to date and watch you portfolios very carefully. Hard times are ahead regardless of what the politicos do.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

That was a completly different situation no where near the magnitude of what is happening right now. In that scandle the banks did not hold Billions of dollars of worthless loans. Loans which will never really be re-paid.

The problem is now that there is no money left to loan, without loans buisness grinds to a halt. Without buisness the stock market fails. When the stock market fails my IRA goes to hell in a handbasket.

Yes of course we will survive it but it will be very very painfull. Keep your resume's up to date and watch you portfolios very carefully. Hard times are ahead regardless of what the politicos do.

Correct me if I'm wrong, are not IRA FDIC insured? If so, you are covered. This is the whole problem. The Fed said they would insure these loads if the banks eased up on requirements for issuing these loans so all could have the American dream. Now, the crow has come home to roost with defaulting loans and the Fed is stuck covering the loans. The Fed failed to oversee what was happening or ignored it. I think both. Hard times are already here for most. This just adds to the burden. I will be honest with you Steamwake. I know of only one person in trouble.....this person has been in trouble for over 3 years. What is the real number who are affected? I do not know. How did they arrive at 700 billion dollars? What, did these people buy million dollar mansions?

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Correct me if I'm wrong, are not IRA FDIC insured? If so, you are covered.

Whom insures the insurers? The money isnt there. All the FDIC will do is print more money.

The money is not there.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Whom insures the insurers? The money isnt there. All the FDIC will do is print more money.

The money is not there.

The Fed pays the money. FDIC is the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. This was created so banks would feel more at ease in granting loans to those who might be on the edge in paying them back. So, the Fed figures a handful might default...not the magnitude we see here today. Sleeping Giant? Yep! Ultimately in the case, the tax payor is the insurer for the insurance provided by FDIC because as you stated...the money is not there....not enough to cover this magnitude of defaulted home/personal/auto loans. Now, the Fed has extended the extorsionist banks ideals here on the American people. We are being extorted because if we do not go ahead with the bailout, we are screwed. Of course, this is how Bush sees and tells it not only once but twice in two days. Some fear mongering tactics from the Fed and the bank.


Personally, I do not care if I loose every cent in my 401K over this. I do not want to pay for someone elses problems. It is not right nor fair. There is no reward for me no matter how you cut it. Not only that, it sets precident with other companies who wish to pull the same BS as these banks did.

[AVGWarhawk]

On, btw, love thy neighbor...even the one who can not afford his home, Hummer and two jet skis he pulls behind it. We all will be paying his way. Got to love it.

Obama now calls it a 'rescue plan'. I'm so glad I could rescue my neighbors Hummer H2....spare me. A lemon by any other name is a lemon.

[Dan D]

I have some questions (keep in mind, I do not know much about how bills get passed in the US):

Is it correct that the Democrats have a majority in Congress and if so, could not they pass a new bail out bill without votes from Republicans, given that there are no Democratic dissenters? Would that be realistic?

For the failed bail out bill: Who initiated the bill? The Democrats or the Republicans?

Is the situation so, that that neither the Democrats nor the Republicans can get a majority together to pass a bail out bill?

Thx