Recharge time vs. Surface Speed? - Page 2

Rockin Robbins · 09-18-08, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monk29

Quote:

Wow! Charge at night while stopped. Does nobody care about playing realistically? That is playing like the vast majority of too-old captains at the beginning of the war whose lack of aggression and complacence required most of them to be removed from commmand and the age ceiling to be lowered for those considered for future commands.

Ouch....

Nothing like getting your A$$ chewed by an admiral on your day off. Should have just went in to the office today.

No more casual bobbing for this guy. All Ahead 1/3, next stop, Tokyo.

..."casual bobbing"...I don't think came out right....

Yeah, and it's much worse to try to keep batteries charged in this sugar boat I'm driving right now. Every second I'm submerged I have to think "Can I surface now?" because it just takes forever to get the charge back up.

Actually, Admiral Lockwood was a lot like that in his thinking about the submarine biz. He dismissed captains right and left for not pushing all the time to develop more contacts. According to Eugene Fluckey, Lockwood would tolerate one unproductive cruise, but when you cane in with a second one, you were done. When Lockwood welcomed you back he took your log. Then when you met with him you defended every single decision during your cruise. On your way back out again he would give you copies of the logs of his top boats to study and imitate their methods and results or......off with your head!

jamz · 09-18-08, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

I do dive when aircraft are likely to spot me but spend the majority of time on the surface.

While were at it... why can I dive in roughly the same time from a complete stop vs ahead at flank... Hmmm ??? :rotfl:

I don't know for sure, but I'm betting it's because what causes you to plunge beneath the seas is the filling of the ballast tanks with water, and that takes as much time at a dead stop as it does when you are charging along. The dive planes won't do much to push down the nose of a very bouyant boat... I think they are mostly to provide more precise shallow depth control.

In other words, your boat stays on the surface, regardless of bow plane angle, until your tanks have admitted enough water to make you heavy enough to start sinking, and this happens at the same rate regardless of your speed.

However, as they say on TV, I am NOT a Real Submarine Captain, so it all might be the purest horsecrap. :P)

SteamWake · 09-18-08, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamz

However, as they say on TV, I am NOT a Real Submarine Captain, so it all might be the purest horsecrap. :P)

But you did stay at a Holiday Inn :rotfl: Just kidding.

But really...

Im no expert either but I think if you could tuck those bow planes into the water at say 12 knots or so... the bow would dip a hella lot faster than if it was sitting still. :hmm:

Sailor Steve · 09-18-08, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

So Steve, you think 9 1/2 knots is a more economical speed than 9? I sure hope you're right. An extra half knot would come in handy sometimes.

Me? No, I was just tryin' to spread some peace and love. I have no opinion on the subject at all. I ususally find it helpful to not have an opinion on something I know nothing about, and I know nothing about fuel usage in SH4.

Arclight · 09-19-08, 09:14 AM

You do dive faster if you're moving, but dive time from "surfaced" condition does not only depend on speed, ballast and dive plane angle. You also need to get your watch crew below deck and secure the hatches, and it's that that takes a lot of time. Try diving from a "decks awash" (no crew on deck) condition; sub will start changing depth immediatly. You'll reach desired depth a lot faster at ahead full then when stationary.

Again with the fuel?!

AFAIK RFB sets the "ahead standard" bell to a compromise between efficiency and speed. Yes, you can get a bit more economy out of the engines, but you'll sacrifice travel time.

"In RFB, every sub has been configured to obtain its best balance between speed and range with the Ahead Standard bell."

If you look up the range of a particular sub, it's usually note as "x miles at 10kts". To me, this means 10kts is typical cruising speed for a fleetboat. Actual speed depends on the captain and his personal preference.

All IMHO, of course.

And from the "RFB perspective", can't say for stock. :hmm:

SteamWake · 09-19-08, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arclight

Try diving from a "decks awash" (no crew on deck) condition; sub will start changing depth immediatly.

I think that at least game wise that is because the ballast tanks are already partially full and just need that little bit more. This is probably true to some extent in real life.

As far as the crew clearing the deck they seem to just vanish in the blink of the eye :rotfl: or sometimes they dont leave the deck at all :hmm:

All this conjecture of fuel economy is really nit picking. But its kind of fun to fuss over such details.

Arclight · 09-19-08, 09:50 AM

The ballast tanks already being flooded should play a part, definitely. Kinda hard to figure out how exactly the game is modeling things just by looking at it. :hmm:

When you order a dive, the boat settles a bit deeper almost immediatly and the speed will begin to drop. Then it holds for a bit, and then slowly goes under, crew "pops" (

) below at ~30ft.

Probably all down to ballast (game-mechanic wise), with a small delay programmed in to simulate the crew going below and securing the hatches.

Don't get me wrong; debate the finer points of fuel economy all you want, I certainly enjoy following the discussion. I'm just to lazy to be setting my speed down to exactly 9,5kts every time nowadays.

Was pretty annoying with the excessive interruptions from planes in stock.

jamz · 09-19-08, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamz

However, as they say on TV, I am NOT a Real Submarine Captain, so it all might be the purest horsecrap. :P)

But you did stay at a Holiday Inn :rotfl: Just kidding.

But really...

Im no expert either but I think if you could tuck those bow planes into the water at say 12 knots or so... the bow would dip a hella lot faster than if it was sitting still. :hmm:

Believe it or not, I was actually typing that in a Hilton last night!

SteamWake · 09-19-08, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamz

Believe it or not, I was actually typing that in a Hilton last night!

Hell that makes you even smarter ! :p

Sledgehammer427 · 09-19-08, 10:02 PM

...
but
...
everybodys been in a Hilton!
:rotfl: :rotfl:

-Pv- · 09-21-08, 01:53 PM

I posted a report on STOCK game test results for battery endurance and charge times. I've found it necessary to link back to this discussion and report many times:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ry+charge+time

It's the people running mods who have poor fuel endurance test results due to tweaks that try to lower the boat in the water to reduce wave riding artifacts. This technique causes the game engine to detect increased water resistance and decrease the range and surface speed.

Result: The stock game accurately depicts correct, historical fuel range, battery endurance and recharge times when historical techniques are applied to game playing style. In WWII, fuel was life and captains horded it like their own blood, saving every drop of reserve for aggressive attacks.

My advice to use 1/3 speed for charging was not for the purpose of increasing range but to decrease charging time while keeping your boat in an aggressive profile. You can dive quicker, evade quicker, turn faster, accelerate to full speed faster if your boat is already moving (not to mention you get to your patrol area faster, thereby increasing your kill score between port stops.)
-Pv-

09-19-08, 09:14 AM	#20
Arclight Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of windmills, tulips, wooden shoes and cheese. Lots of cheese. Posts: 8,467 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 10	You do dive faster if you're moving, but dive time from "surfaced" condition does not only depend on speed, ballast and dive plane angle. You also need to get your watch crew below deck and secure the hatches, and it's that that takes a lot of time. Try diving from a "decks awash" (no crew on deck) condition; sub will start changing depth immediatly. You'll reach desired depth a lot faster at ahead full then when stationary. Again with the fuel?! AFAIK RFB sets the "ahead standard" bell to a compromise between efficiency and speed. Yes, you can get a bit more economy out of the engines, but you'll sacrifice travel time. "In RFB, every sub has been configured to obtain its best balance between speed and range with the Ahead Standard bell." If you look up the range of a particular sub, it's usually note as "x miles at 10kts". To me, this means 10kts is typical cruising speed for a fleetboat. Actual speed depends on the captain and his personal preference. All IMHO, of course. And from the "RFB perspective", can't say for stock. :hmm: __________________ Contritium praecedit superbia.

09-19-08, 09:50 AM	#22
Arclight Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of windmills, tulips, wooden shoes and cheese. Lots of cheese. Posts: 8,467 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 10	The ballast tanks already being flooded should play a part, definitely. Kinda hard to figure out how exactly the game is modeling things just by looking at it. :hmm: When you order a dive, the boat settles a bit deeper almost immediatly and the speed will begin to drop. Then it holds for a bit, and then slowly goes under, crew "pops" ( ) below at ~30ft. Probably all down to ballast (game-mechanic wise), with a small delay programmed in to simulate the crew going below and securing the hatches. Don't get me wrong; debate the finer points of fuel economy all you want, I certainly enjoy following the discussion. I'm just to lazy to be setting my speed down to exactly 9,5kts every time nowadays. Was pretty annoying with the excessive interruptions from planes in stock. __________________ Contritium praecedit superbia.

09-19-08, 10:02 PM	#25
Sledgehammer427 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts Posts: 2,908 Downloads: 287 Uploads: 0	... but ... everybodys been in a Hilton! :rotfl: :rotfl: __________________ Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168) 114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C!

09-21-08, 01:53 PM	#26
-Pv- The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,434 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I posted a report on STOCK game test results for battery endurance and charge times. I've found it necessary to link back to this discussion and report many times: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ry+charge+time It's the people running mods who have poor fuel endurance test results due to tweaks that try to lower the boat in the water to reduce wave riding artifacts. This technique causes the game engine to detect increased water resistance and decrease the range and surface speed. Result: The stock game accurately depicts correct, historical fuel range, battery endurance and recharge times when historical techniques are applied to game playing style. In WWII, fuel was life and captains horded it like their own blood, saving every drop of reserve for aggressive attacks. My advice to use 1/3 speed for charging was not for the purpose of increasing range but to decrease charging time while keeping your boat in an aggressive profile. You can dive quicker, evade quicker, turn faster, accelerate to full speed faster if your boat is already moving (not to mention you get to your patrol area faster, thereby increasing your kill score between port stops.) -Pv-