Mark 10 vs Mark 14 - Page 2

Orion2012 · 09-04-08, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapnBlood

If your actualy going to try for keel shots I would stick with the mk10s they keep set depth way better and less chance for duds than 14s but if your just letting them loose at 2m close to 90degrees keep the 14s for the better warheads. If I remeber mk10s are +-1.2 meters and mark 14s are +-3.2 meters.

Personally I keep nothing but mk10s in my aft tubes for taking out destroyers with reliable keel shots when there chasing me down.

There are some threads on the forum for exact warhead potential, depth probs, and dud chances for each of the different torps.

I thought the MK10's ONLY had an impact detonator, making shooting for a keel shot, kind of difficult.

Also, the chances of a dud are reduced by 50% when shooting on the slow speed setting in RFB.

SteamWake · 09-04-08, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion2012

Also, the chances of a dud are reduced by 50% when shooting on the slow speed setting in RFB.

I shot a couple of mk10's at a destroyer tonight. Inside of 800 yards. At slow settings.

Of course he picked them up right away and went instaflank. But the the first one caught em.... doink

dud. The second missed by a long ways.

After that he was well up to speed, hard on the tiller, and tossing a few rounds towards my scope.

In shallow water all we could do is lower the scope, make some turns and played the part of the hunted for about 150 miles.

We did finally get away.

Jetman123 · 09-05-08, 01:52 AM

I honestly now prefer to keep mark 10s in my rear tubes, as after a bit of experimenting (not much, mind you) it fits my playstyle. Let the convoy drift over you, pop to periscope depth, torpedo everything in sight. Then run. Let the destroyers chase you. Go at flank battery speed and then 1/3d to make them overshoot, and make lots of crazy turns to throw their depth charges off. All the while shooting mark 10s at their keel.

Lower range? Yes. Lower speed? Yes. But at short range (which most destroyers will be at when they're trying to depth charge you) none of that matters. What matters is it's more reliable for a keel shot. I've blown open a Japanese destroyer's bow right when it was chasing me, and sunk it in a single close-range shot off the keel.

Orion2012 · 09-05-08, 02:16 AM

I believe that the dude rate change only applies to the MK14's.

In theory, shooting at a slower speed would have helped during the war. Everything I've read has indicated that the firing pin was crushed before the firing mechanism was triggered, due to the increased forces involved in the higher speed setting on the new MK14. The MK14 did have a new, untested magnetic detonator, but the impact detonator was the same as in the new MK14, hince the problem with the higher amount of force crated at impact crushing the pin.

aanker · 09-05-08, 03:09 PM

The Mark 10 had one speed setting so fast/slow should have no effect - if SH4 models the real world. The Mark 10 had the Mark 3 contact detonator not a magnetic influence exploder.

The Mark 14 was the only torpedo to have a fast/slow setting though the slow setting was rarely used. The Mark 14 used the Mark 6 detonator which as you know caused a lot of problems because the magnetic influence detonator didn't work. Also, early in the War the firing pin would break if used on the fast setting for contact hits and both the Mark 10 and Mark 14 had problems running deep; typically running 10' deeper than set.

By mid 1943 "Uncle Charlie" ordered tests of the Mark 6 detonator and CinCPac Admiral Nimitz ordered all boats under his command to disable the magnetic exploder and fire for contact hits.

Hondo has great information about this on his site:
http://www.valoratsea.com/torp.htm

Heck, Hondo has great information on everything related to the US Submarine War in the Pacific on his site! ... lol
http://www.valoratsea.com/

Happy Hunting!

Art

Arclight · 09-05-08, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aanker

The Mark 10 had one speed setting so fast/slow should have no effect - if SH4 models the real world. The Mark 10 had the Mark 3 contact detonator not a magnetic influence exploder.

It's the darndest thing; mark 10 is modeled with 1 speed setting, but it can be set to an influence trigger. Everybody is saying it doesn't have it, and yet it is modeled with one. Even with all the mods (AFAIK). :hmm:

aanker · 09-05-08, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arclight

Quote:

Originally Posted by aanker

The Mark 10 had one speed setting so fast/slow should have no effect - if SH4 models the real world. The Mark 10 had the Mark 3 contact detonator not a magnetic influence exploder.

It's the darndest thing; mark 10 is modeled with 1 speed setting, but it can be set to an influence trigger. Everybody is saying it doesn't have it, and yet it is modeled with one. Even with all the mods (AFAIK). :hmm:

I am not surprised. When SH4 was first released there were many complaints that the magnetic influence exploder didn't work so the Dev's probably 'fixed it'.

I think I remember reading somewhere that even the Germans and Brits gave up on it early in the War because it didn't work for them either.

"It's a game" - like someone said in another thread... lol

Happy Hunting!

Art

09-08-08, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapnBlood

If your actualy going to try for keel shots I would stick with the mk10s they keep set depth way better and less chance for duds than 14s but if your just letting them loose at 2m close to 90degrees keep the 14s for the better warheads. If I remeber mk10s are +-1.2 meters and mark 14s are +-3.2 meters.

Personally I keep nothing but mk10s in my aft tubes for taking out destroyers with reliable keel shots when there chasing me down.

You know, that's not a bad idea (mark 10's in the aft tubes). I'll try that on my next patrol.

Sailor Steve · 09-08-08, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arclight

Quote:

Originally Posted by aanker

The Mark 10 had one speed setting so fast/slow should have no effect - if SH4 models the real world. The Mark 10 had the Mark 3 contact detonator not a magnetic influence exploder.

It's the darndest thing; mark 10 is modeled with 1 speed setting, but it can be set to an influence trigger. Everybody is saying it doesn't have it, and yet it is modeled with one. Even with all the mods (AFAIK). :hmm:

The Mk 10 was 15' 3" in length, and the Mk 14, at 20' 6", was more than 5 feet longer. Could they even be used in the same tubes?
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_PreWWII.htm
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_WWII.htm

And once again the game is wrong. The Mk 3 exploder used in the Mk 10 torpedo was indeed contact only.

SteamWake · 09-08-08, 12:05 PM

Steve Im pretty sure the Mk10's could be launched out of the bigger tubes as they were the same diameter.

But I think what your seeing regarding the Mk10's fuse setting is a fall back to the old bug.

You can turn the switch from contact/influence to contact and it goes 'click' but thats all it does.

Used to be like that for all torpedoes, reportedly it does work now but wether or not it effects the Mk10 I dont know. Should be easy to test though.

LukeFF · 09-08-08, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The Mk 10 was 15' 3" in length, and the Mk 14, at 20' 6", was more than 5 feet longer. Could they even be used in the same tubes?
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_PreWWII.htm
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_WWII.htm

Yes. In the early months of the war a number of fleet boats took Mark 10s out on patrol, when the Mark 14 was in short supply.

Arclight · 09-08-08, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

...

But I think what your seeing regarding the Mk10's fuse setting is a fall back to the old bug.

You can turn the switch from contact/influence to contact and it goes 'click' but thats all it does.

Used to be like that for all torpedoes, reportedly it does work now but wether or not it effects the Mk10 I dont know. Should be easy to test though.

Tried a couple of keel shots, not possible with a mark 10. Had a look at the files to confirm and they do; just 1 pistol, non-magnetic.

SteamWake · 09-09-08, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arclight

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

...

But I think what your seeing regarding the Mk10's fuse setting is a fall back to the old bug.

You can turn the switch from contact/influence to contact and it goes 'click' but thats all it does.

Used to be like that for all torpedoes, reportedly it does work now but wether or not it effects the Mk10 I dont know. Should be easy to test though.

Tried a couple of keel shots, not possible with a mark 10. Had a look at the files to confirm and they do; just 1 pistol, non-magnetic.

Thanks for confirming that, so play with that switch and make it go click all ya want... its still a contact only fuse.

aanker · 09-09-08, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arclight

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

...

But I think what your seeing regarding the Mk10's fuse setting is a fall back to the old bug.

You can turn the switch from contact/influence to contact and it goes 'click' but thats all it does.

Used to be like that for all torpedoes, reportedly it does work now but wether or not it effects the Mk10 I dont know. Should be easy to test though.

Tried a couple of keel shots, not possible with a mark 10. Had a look at the files to confirm and they do; just 1 pistol, non-magnetic.

Thanks for confirming that, so play with that switch and make it go click all ya want... its still a contact only fuse.

Thanks for confirming that and I apologize for my incorrect remark above where I thought that maybe the Dev's bent to the pressure to 'fix it' - after someone said the influence exploder worked w/Mark 10's. The Dev's got it right and stuck to their guns.

Happy Hunting!

Art

elanaiba · 09-10-08, 03:13 AM

What comment? Where? were we supposed to fix something ?

Just re-checked it myself. No magnetic detonation for the Mark 10. And the dud rate (stock) is less than the Mark 14. As it should be.

09-05-08, 01:52 AM	#18
Jetman123 Swabbie Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada Posts: 5 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I honestly now prefer to keep mark 10s in my rear tubes, as after a bit of experimenting (not much, mind you) it fits my playstyle. Let the convoy drift over you, pop to periscope depth, torpedo everything in sight. Then run. Let the destroyers chase you. Go at flank battery speed and then 1/3d to make them overshoot, and make lots of crazy turns to throw their depth charges off. All the while shooting mark 10s at their keel. Lower range? Yes. Lower speed? Yes. But at short range (which most destroyers will be at when they're trying to depth charge you) none of that matters. What matters is it's more reliable for a keel shot. I've blown open a Japanese destroyer's bow right when it was chasing me, and sunk it in a single close-range shot off the keel. __________________ Under the seaaaaa, under the seaaaaa There'll be no sinking barges Just unfriendly depth charges Under the seaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

09-10-08, 03:13 AM	#30
elanaiba Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,058 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 3	What comment? Where? were we supposed to fix something ? Just re-checked it myself. No magnetic detonation for the Mark 10. And the dud rate (stock) is less than the Mark 14. As it should be. __________________ With strength I burn...

09-05-08, 02:16 AM	#19
Orion2012 Commodore Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 611 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I believe that the dude rate change only applies to the MK14's. In theory, shooting at a slower speed would have helped during the war. Everything I've read has indicated that the firing pin was crushed before the firing mechanism was triggered, due to the increased forces involved in the higher speed setting on the new MK14. The MK14 did have a new, untested magnetic detonator, but the impact detonator was the same as in the new MK14, hince the problem with the higher amount of force crated at impact crushing the pin.

09-05-08, 03:09 PM	#20
aanker Pacific Thunder Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yellow Sea Posts: 1,896 Downloads: 236 Uploads: 14	The Mark 10 had one speed setting so fast/slow should have no effect - if SH4 models the real world. The Mark 10 had the Mark 3 contact detonator not a magnetic influence exploder. The Mark 14 was the only torpedo to have a fast/slow setting though the slow setting was rarely used. The Mark 14 used the Mark 6 detonator which as you know caused a lot of problems because the magnetic influence detonator didn't work. Also, early in the War the firing pin would break if used on the fast setting for contact hits and both the Mark 10 and Mark 14 had problems running deep; typically running 10' deeper than set. By mid 1943 "Uncle Charlie" ordered tests of the Mark 6 detonator and CinCPac Admiral Nimitz ordered all boats under his command to disable the magnetic exploder and fire for contact hits. Hondo has great information about this on his site: http://www.valoratsea.com/torp.htm Heck, Hondo has great information on everything related to the US Submarine War in the Pacific on his site! ... lol http://www.valoratsea.com/ Happy Hunting! Art

09-08-08, 12:05 PM	#25
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Steve Im pretty sure the Mk10's could be launched out of the bigger tubes as they were the same diameter. But I think what your seeing regarding the Mk10's fuse setting is a fall back to the old bug. You can turn the switch from contact/influence to contact and it goes 'click' but thats all it does. Used to be like that for all torpedoes, reportedly it does work now but wether or not it effects the Mk10 I dont know. Should be easy to test though.