Empire Total War - naval battle gameplay trailer released

[Captain Vlad]

That's the philosiphy they've stuck too for every Total War game thus far. They've yet to make a weak or uninvolving game.

[tater]

I wouldn't know, I've not bought any of them. Course I also maintain that RTS games are neither real time (NONE are, obviously), nor strategy (most are more tactical).

None the less, I'd dearly love to see a good age of fighting sail simulator. Contrary to what some have said on other boards (potbs, for example), there is no reason why a realistic sailing model has to be too hard for players to master. It's entirely a question of the UI for the game. In addition, with the player as Captain (or Admiral), there is no need for them to be overly concerned with HOW the ship does what they wish, just that it does it as well as possible. For an "EZ mode" give your ship an AI sailing master. As skipper, you order the boat to be placed at pistol shot from the target, on the same tack, and the Master makes it happen.

From an interface standpoint, you could have the ability to place a target marked on the sea, and the game would draw a rough path line showing how the ship would get where you want it placed. If the target point is upwind, it could draw tacks to get you there, and you could hit a key to swap wearing for tacking, and sliders for the length of the legs of the tacks (down to the minimum possible length based on crew and timing).

Anyway, it could be done so that as skipper you are concerned with the path the ship takes, but the officers and men make it happen. It need not require the player to reef every sail by hand.

SH suffers the same poor paradigm for the position of the player, BTW. We either have to do ALL the jobs, or it's made ridiculously easy. Ideally, the player would be skipper, and his firing party would plot his observations, etc. We'd have a model between what we call 100% realism—which unrealistically requires the captain to do jobs he never did in RL), and auto targeting which is is joke.

UI is everything.

[Captain Vlad]

Originally Posted by tater

I wouldn't know, I've not bought any of them. Course I also maintain that RTS games are neither real time (NONE are, obviously), nor strategy (most are more tactical).

They're quite good. How much do you know about them, interface wise? Only the battles are 'real time'.

None the less, I'd dearly love to see a good age of fighting sail simulator.

Me too, but I wasn't expecting one from Empire: Total War. Producing a full on sailing sim would be a massive project if you wanted to do it justice, and naval battles are only part of the whole.

[tater]

Even battles in RTS games are sped up. Or do napoleonic battles take days sometimes (real days)?

Sorry, I'm just being pedantic

As for age of fighting sail, I keep seeing games that LOOK fantastic, and I wish they were built with the bones to make them realistic.

It needn't be painfully realistic, just realistic enough to simulate outcomes. All the stuff we see with fantasy sailing makes things like The Battle of the Nile impossible.

[Captain Vlad]

Originally Posted by tater

Even battles in RTS games are sped up. Or do napoleonic battles take days sometimes (real days)?

I've even seen that problem even in turn based games, with multiple days of a particular battle being their own scenario, without any carry over of casualties, morale, etc. And these weren't crap games, either. Ever play Age of Rifles?

Day and night cycles and other such would be a neat thing to see in a Total War type game, though it does beg the question on whether that level of 'single battle' detail would serve that kind of game.

As for age of fighting sail, I keep seeing games that LOOK fantastic, and I wish they were built with the bones to make them realistic.

Might be marketing more than anything else. While it's entirely realistic to be at the mercy of the wind, how many people want to play a game where that's accurately simulated?

[tater]

I do. I don;t think POTBS is doing terribly well, are they? I think that had they made sailing more interesting, there'd be FAR more replay ability. In a world of magical windward sailing, all the battles become slug fests.

As I said, realistic sailing does NOT require grognard like detail. No individual sail controls are needed, it's the end results that matter.

You can have a momentum indicator that shows if the ship will make stays tacking, for example, if you won't get through the eye of the wind, you have no choice but to sail on close-hauled, wear, or miss stays trying (might be useful to bring guns to bear rarely).

Fudging the wind in a sailing game is like messing with gravity and lift in a flight sim.

[Captain Vlad]

Originally Posted by tater

I do.

I'd play it as well. But I've adored games that were definite niche products before, and while I can lament the fact that more specialized games aren't made, I do understand why they're not as common, heavily budgeted, etc.

This is, of course, counter-balanced by the fact that, if it's done really well, any game can find a market.

I don't think POTBS is doing terribly well, are they?

Despite great interest, I haven't got to play it. The satellite connection giveth, the satellite connection taketh away.

How'd you think of how sailing was handled in the latest version of Pirates?