Have we all moved to Russia?

[Bruno Lotse]

Thank you Mush for the picture.

Here's Stalin writing something.
But he was also a great reader. His personal library which he would collect for his whole life included 20 th!!! books.
Each day he would try to read 300 pages of literature on various subjects - science, economics, history, and military affairs.

He was a heavy smoker. He used Caucasian tobacco 'Gertsegovina Flor' exclusively.
A pack of this cigarettes is in the picture. He would take a cigarette, break it and use tobacco for his famous black pipe.

http://www.zigsam.at/B_HerzegovinaFlor.htm

[Happy Times]

Maybe you can clone him? You think he would let Putin live, he is so soft?:hmm:

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

Maybe you can clone him? You think he would let Putin live, he is so soft?:hmm:

Tell that to these guys, lol:



To be EXECUTED for:

Being alleged "saboteurs, lawyers, priests, landowners, factory owners, and spies".

Well, what was the end result?

The infamous event we know as the Katyn Massacre.

[Bruno Lotse]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Tell that to these guys, lol:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Jeńcy1.jpg/250px-Jeńcy1.jpg

To be EXECUTED for:

Being alleged "saboteurs, lawyers, priests, landowners, factory owners, and spies".

Well, what was the end result?

The infamous event we know as the Katyn Massacre.

Just words.
I want to see a legal document where it would be spelled out that
someone is to be executed for being
alleged "saboteurs, lawyers, priests, landowners, factory owners, and spies".
not proved but alleged
If someone is proved to be a spy then what - America will give that person a credit card?
If someone is proved to be a saboteur - then what - that one may go home and continue?
Think what you are writing.

Katyn Massacre? Sure. Germans did it.

Burdenko commission came to this conclusion back in 1944
in presence of Americans amongst which was a daughter of US Ambassador to the USSR Mr. Garriman.

[Stealth Hunter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_Massacre

:rotfl:

Seriously, are you drunk, crazy, or do you really believe what you're saying?

This will have to wait. I'm tired, and need to rest. I have a strong feeling I'll have plenty of laughs in this thread tomorrow.

[Bruno Lotse]

It's all you've got?
Only wicki? Do you have idea how it's being created.
Find me there a reference to Ms.Garriman.
It's not there? Why? She was an one of US reps working with Burdenko commission
and signed results in early spring of 1944.
So, now it is not politically expedient to write about Ms.Garriman in English version of Vicky?
Right?

[Happy Times]

They are starting to deny large parts of history officially in Russia, its not only Bruno the Ruskie.

[Zero Niner]

Originally Posted by Bruno Lotse

Katyn Massacre? Sure. Germans did it.
Burdenko commission came to this conclusion back in 1943
in presense even Americans amongs which were a daughter of US Ambassador to the USSR Mr. Garriman.

That is just plain wrong.

[Thomen]

Anyone else getting flashbacks from 2003 when Comical Ali said "There are no American tanks ins Baghdad"?

[Bruno Lotse]

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

That is just plain wrong.

This is a piece of forgery. This kinda 'document' was once presented to the Russian Constitutional Court and was rejected as a forgery.
Simple like that.
You should know this, ZeroNiner.

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by Bruno Lotse

This is a piece of forgery. This kinda document was once presented to the Russian Constitutional Court and was rejected as a forgery.
Simple like that.

Source?

[Zero Niner]

What about this then:

The Nazis discovered the bodies of several thousand Polish officers at Katyn in 1943, but Moscow did not admit responsibility for the killings until 1989.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4102967.stm

But going by your previous posts (not just in this thread) you'll probably claim that it was all a fabrication by Imperialist Western media out to tarnish the good image of the Soviet Union.

[Skybird]

I must object. Stalin does not become "the second greatest leader of russia" just becasue the russian victory over Nazi Germany falls into the term of his reign. Tito said in a public speech that if Stalin deserves any honour, than that of being one of mankind's absolute top slaughterers of his own people, Chruchtchew in an internal speech distanced the later soviet regimes from Stalin, and there is a reason why throughout the Eastern bloc after stalin's detah a more or less obvious process of de-stalinisation set in.

I am aware that since several years there has a new Stalin cult emerging in russia, and that he gets transfigured into a national paternal holy figure, with serious distortions of history. That can be explained with the ignorrance of the young who did not live under his regime, and the forgiuveness of the old who suffered losses for the main after the fall of the USSR and the social internal decline. It is the hope for the savior, the call for the strong man, and sometimes it is straightout stupidity.

It is not hitler'S recommendable "merit" we must admire of having lauched a war and a regime that costed 6 million Germans their lives and caused the death of the better part of the 54+ million people dead after five years of Nazi-German glory (exclduing the scores in the Pacific theatre). for the same reason I am hesitent to see Stalin as his country's greatest leader. There were several fearsome slaughterers in russian history, but nobody acchieved such a high bodycount like comrade Stalin. And I do not mean the deaths caused by the Nazis - I am talking about the killing of Russians commited by Stalin himself, by order, by command, by state-terror, and by incompetence (in agriculture, for example). The estimations range between half a dozen of millions, and five dozen millions russian having come to death in and by Stalin'S regime.

Bruno, you may want to reconsider your statement of Stalin being the greatest leader of Russia. He ranks amongst the greatest criminals in human history, I'm sorry to clear that one up - but Stalin has to be seen not any different than Hitler, or Mao.

The following may be wikipedia, but it is a good summarizing overview. If you use Google, you can find much material about the deathscores achieved by Stalin.

Early researchers attempting to count the number of people killed under Stalin's regime were forced to rely largely upon anecdotal evidence. Their estimates ranged from 3 to 60 million.[49] After the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, evidence from the Soviet archives became available. The archives record that about 800,000 prisoners were executed under Stalin for either political or criminal offences, while around 1.7 million died in the GULAG and some 390,000 perished during kulak forced resettlement — a total of about 3 million victims.
Debate continues, however, since some historians believe the archival figures to be unreliable.[50] For example, Gellately argues the many suspects tortured to death while in "investigative custody" were likely not to have been counted amongst the executed.[51][5] Also, there are categories of victim which were not accuaretly recorded by the Soviets — such as the victims of ethnic deportations, or of German population transfer in the aftermath of WWII.
Thus, while some archival researchers have estimated the number of victims of Stalin's repressions to be 4 million in total or less, others believe the number to be considerably higher.[52] Russian writer Vadim Erlikman, for example, makes the following estimates: executions, 1.5 million; gulags, 5 million; deportations, 1.7 million out of 7.5 million deported; and POWs and German civilians, 1 million — a total of about 9 million victims of repression.[53]
Wheatcroft and Davies have also included the 6 to 8 million victims of the 1932–1933 famine as victims of repression.[26][54][55] This categorization is controversial however, as historians differ as to whether the famine was a deliberate part of the campaign of repression against kulaks or simply an unintended consequence of the struggle over forced collectivization.
Certainly, it appears a minimum of around 10 million surplus deaths - 4 million by repression and 6 million from famine - are attributable to the regime, with a number of recent books suggesting a likely total of around 20 million.[56] Adding 6–8 million famine victims to Erlikman's estimates above, for example, would yield a total of between 15 and 17 million victims. Researcher Robert Conquest, meanwhile, has revised his original estimate of up to 30 million victims down to 20 million.[57] Others continue to maintain their earlier much higher estimates are correct.

Please Bruno, don't tell us that you were serious when saying Stalin was "the Russian leader who takes the second place in the roster of the greatest Russian men in the history of Russian 1000 year statehood." Tell me instead that you just were sarcastic and that I am just too dump to get it. Please. I stand ready to apologize, then.

Would somebody here understand it, would I be even tolerated in this forum anymore, if I would defend the holocaust and Hitler's crimes, and declare him Germany's second-greatest leader ever...? for the good reputation of this forum probably most of us would agree on that the answer would be: "hardly".

[Bruno Lotse]

Please Bruno, don't tell us that you were serious when saying Stalin was "the Russian leader who takes the second place in the roster of the greatest Russian men in the history of Russian 1000 year statehood." Tell me instead that you just were sarcastic and that I am just too dump to get it. Please. I stand ready to apologize, then.

Yeah, I was wrong
At the moment Stalin is number one.
You can check it out here.
http://www.nameofrussia.ru/rating.html

It's how People of Russia voting (yes, those who have access to internet)

[Happy Times]

Russian leader looks to Stalin's legacy