How much do you get penalized for refusing BDU's orders? - Page 2

danlisa · 08-21-08, 08:25 AM

Play how you want.

But!

There were no medals/acknowledgment/reward given to any Kaleun of any boat for only patrolling his assigned grid. They were orders. RL Kaleuns did not waste fuel in the pursuit of tonnage either. If they found no targets in their assigned grids they moved the adjacent one and did not trapse 1000kms to tanker f'ing alley....

FYI about the renown given by the game. There is no (or ever was) reward given for returning to base. It was broken from day 1. Also, your awarded renown is directly proportionate to your difficulty percentage. This applies to tonnage sunk & grids reached/patrolled.

Happy renown gathering.

Sailor Steve · 08-21-08, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Riley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cezbor

..... it's funy that you receive only 100 renown for reaching your home base especially when you sail through all the Atlantic f.e. from AK or ET grids...All that trip (over 60 days of gametime) just for 100 renown

.

I agree totally,100 renown for trekking half way across the world and back again seems extremely unrealistic,even more so if you get caught in fierce storms across going across the Atlantic!.

Whatever you do, don't play GWX! There, you get no renown for going to your assigned grid and none for going home again, their theory being that you don't get special rewards just for doing your assigned job. I kind of like it that way. Although I've edited mine so I don't get penalized for sinking neutrals, I like the idea that in the military you have to do something really spectaculare before they notice you. Just make sure it's not spectacularly bad - that kind of notice I don't need!

But then, I never buy upgrades and always take '0'-level crew, so I guess I don't need it, either.

Paul Riley · 08-21-08, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Riley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cezbor

..... it's funy that you receive only 100 renown for reaching your home base especially when you sail through all the Atlantic f.e. from AK or ET grids...All that trip (over 60 days of gametime) just for 100 renown

.

I agree totally,100 renown for trekking half way across the world and back again seems extremely unrealistic,even more so if you get caught in fierce storms across going across the Atlantic!.

Whatever you do, don't play GWX! There, you get no renown for going to your assigned grid and none for going home again, their theory being that you don't get special rewards just for doing your assigned job. I kind of like it that way. Although I've edited mine so I don't get penalized for sinking neutrals, I like the idea that in the military you have to do something really spectaculare before they notice you. Just make sure it's not spectacularly bad - that kind of notice I don't need!

But then, I never buy upgrades and always take '0'-level crew, so I guess I don't need it, either.

The more I think about it?,the GWX setting for patrol reached/completed does sound about right.An order being an order.
Well earned renown for me is how many ships you sunk on patrol,the size of them,and the cargo they carried (particularly with oil,as this is vital for any war),with extra renown for warships,esp.battleships,which would probably elevate you to 'national hero'.
I know uboats werent designed to engage in duels against warships,but,how about extra renown for fighting them with the DG?,to simulate an extremely brave captain,trying to save his torps for cargo.I think thats a decent idea.

meduza · 08-21-08, 08:43 AM

In my opinion, the much more realistic approach would be if you lose some renown for not following your orders. But this would cause problems if you play in the areas without grids, like Black sea or Far east.

Paul Riley · 08-21-08, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meduza

In my opinion, the much more realistic approach would be if you lose some renown for not following your orders. But this would cause problems if you play in the areas without grids, like Black sea or Far east.

I agree.
Just to remind you of why I started this post,it all started with my current assignment in grid GR89.As you will discover this is right at the bottom,past Cape Town,and has no activity in that sector at all.And just as I was leaving French waters towards the Spanish coast I developed a serious engine problem reducing my speed to about 7kts.Thus,I have decided to take a risk and head for the lanes west of Britain instead.
This is the first time I have disobeyed an order,and hopefully it will be the last

Sailor Steve · 08-21-08, 09:05 AM

Well, even if you only use renown as an indicator, the powers-that-be tend to be very forgiving if you sink a lot of tonnage. They seem to like that for some reason.

Paul Riley · 08-21-08, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Well, even if you only use renown as an indicator, the powers-that-be tend to be very forgiving if you sink a lot of tonnage. They seem to like that for some reason.

After all,its war Steve,and even the captains themselves may have known more than intelligence back at the bases

Jimbuna · 08-21-08, 09:17 AM

At times I thought the Kaleuns in the front lines had more intelligence (the personal kind) than those at Bdu asssigning the patrol areas.

Paul Riley · 08-21-08, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

At times I thought the Kaleuns in the front lines had more intelligence (the personal kind) than those at Bdu asssigning the patrol areas.

No s**t mate.
Damn beaurocrats,they're all the bloody same.

08-21-08, 12:50 PM

I understand the rationale in game terms for removing the renown merely for reaching the ordered grid, particularly during the good-hunting years where there were tonnage rivalries between the successful commanders.

However for those boats ordered to weather reporting stations, minelaying or escorting blockade runners for example, there were little prospects of making kills even though solid and reliable performance would likely garner official notice over time. SH3 might not simulate any of these but I have always treated those 'stupid' patrol area orders as that sort of thing. It's a luxury to know the reasons why a particular order is given until after the mission is complete and there must have been a lot of commanders who shook their heads in wonder on reciept of instructions but still obeyed.

After May '43, just following orders and coming back alive was a major feat and even if BdU didn't notice, the troops and flotilla staff would think well of a captain who did so even without tonnage success.

Just $0.02

STEED · 08-21-08, 01:11 PM

Screw the renown BS.

There you are sailing back in to port and they tot up your points! What is this? Come on down the price is right crap, this is a war not a flipping game show.

Sailor Steve · 08-21-08, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

At times I thought the Kaleuns in the front lines had more intelligence (the personal kind) than those at Bdu asssigning the patrol areas.

That is always the case in the military. The funny part is that it's not usually the guys at the very top who are the problem; it's the middle-management who think they know everything.

A fine example of a commander who knew how to get it right:
http://www.afa.org/magazine/April2002/0402kenney.html

And a favorite part of the story:

Quote:

There were even complaints from the field that requests for parts were turned down because of improperly filled out requisition forms. Kenney made clear that he was putting an end to this practice. "You don't win wars with file cabinets," he said.

There is a legend that when Kenney confronted the suppy officer who was causing the problem the guy got huffy and stuffy and insisted the forms be filled out correctly, at which point Kenney told his personal guards to take him outside and shoot him for obstructing the war effort! That got results! Don't know if it's true, but it's a great story.

08-21-08, 03:35 PM

Is a realistic grid in 42

Take look

http://uboat.net/ops/monsun1.htm

Jimbuna · 08-21-08, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

At times I thought the Kaleuns in the front lines had more intelligence (the personal kind) than those at Bdu asssigning the patrol areas.

That is always the case in the military. The funny part is that it's not usually the guys at the very top who are the problem; it's the middle-management who think they know everything.

A fine example of a commander who knew how to get it right:
http://www.afa.org/magazine/April2002/0402kenney.html

And a favorite part of the story:

Quote:

There were even complaints from the field that requests for parts were turned down because of improperly filled out requisition forms. Kenney made clear that he was putting an end to this practice. "You don't win wars with file cabinets," he said.

There is a legend that when Kenney confronted the suppy officer who was causing the problem the guy got huffy and stuffy and insisted the forms be filled out correctly, at which point Kenney told his personal guards to take him outside and shoot him for obstructing the war effort! That got results! Don't know if it's true, but it's a great story.

A pragmatic guy who got the end result that was necessary

1480 · 08-21-08, 04:22 PM

@jb amen.

@SS, that man had a pair. Not many of those left.

As a fan of both sh3 (gwx of course) and sh4, I really like what they did with rsrd in that your op orders changed once you completed a task, which is more realistic then just "head over there for 24hrs and rtb." That is my only beef with sh3. I wish there was a way to do this. And yes I have WB's immersion messages mod, it helps a bit but freewheeling after you complete your grid just seems a bit of reach.

That is not meant as a jab, since that is the only thing I would change in the game.

08-21-08, 08:25 AM	#16
danlisa Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 5,499 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 1	Play how you want. But! There were no medals/acknowledgment/reward given to any Kaleun of any boat for only patrolling his assigned grid. They were orders. RL Kaleuns did not waste fuel in the pursuit of tonnage either. If they found no targets in their assigned grids they moved the adjacent one and did not trapse 1000kms to tanker f'ing alley.... FYI about the renown given by the game. There is no (or ever was) reward given for returning to base. It was broken from day 1. Also, your awarded renown is directly proportionate to your difficulty percentage. This applies to tonnage sunk & grids reached/patrolled. Happy renown gathering. __________________

08-21-08, 09:05 AM	#21
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Well, even if you only use renown as an indicator, the powers-that-be tend to be very forgiving if you sink a lot of tonnage. They seem to like that for some reason. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

08-21-08, 09:17 AM	#23
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 191,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	At times I thought the Kaleuns in the front lines had more intelligence (the personal kind) than those at Bdu asssigning the patrol areas. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-21-08, 01:11 PM	#26
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Screw the renown BS. There you are sailing back in to port and they tot up your points! What is this? Come on down the price is right crap, this is a war not a flipping game show. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

08-21-08, 04:22 PM	#30
1480 Lead Slinger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chitcago, Illinoise Posts: 1,442 Downloads: 74 Uploads: 0	@jb amen. @SS, that man had a pair. Not many of those left. As a fan of both sh3 (gwx of course) and sh4, I really like what they did with rsrd in that your op orders changed once you completed a task, which is more realistic then just "head over there for 24hrs and rtb." That is my only beef with sh3. I wish there was a way to do this. And yes I have WB's immersion messages mod, it helps a bit but freewheeling after you complete your grid just seems a bit of reach. That is not meant as a jab, since that is the only thing I would change in the game. __________________

08-21-08, 08:43 AM	#19
meduza Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: on patrol Posts: 1,035 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	In my opinion, the much more realistic approach would be if you lose some renown for not following your orders. But this would cause problems if you play in the areas without grids, like Black sea or Far east.

08-21-08, 12:50 PM	#25
Randomizer Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I understand the rationale in game terms for removing the renown merely for reaching the ordered grid, particularly during the good-hunting years where there were tonnage rivalries between the successful commanders. However for those boats ordered to weather reporting stations, minelaying or escorting blockade runners for example, there were little prospects of making kills even though solid and reliable performance would likely garner official notice over time. SH3 might not simulate any of these but I have always treated those 'stupid' patrol area orders as that sort of thing. It's a luxury to know the reasons why a particular order is given until after the mission is complete and there must have been a lot of commanders who shook their heads in wonder on reciept of instructions but still obeyed. After May '43, just following orders and coming back alive was a major feat and even if BdU didn't notice, the troops and flotilla staff would think well of a captain who did so even without tonnage success. Just $0.02

08-21-08, 03:35 PM	#28
Reise Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Is a realistic grid in 42 Take look http://uboat.net/ops/monsun1.htm