TMO vs RFB

[Fincuan]

TMO wins by a fair margin:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php...=TMO&word2=RFB

[IronPerch]

Originally Posted by Fish40

Hi, and welcome!. I use RFB myself. Traditionaly, RFB has and still is the mod for the most realism. As far as NSM goes, I don't think a 1.5 version was ever developed yet, so if you're useing v1.5 of the game, there may be some problems with NSM.

I have been runnign NSM with RFB 1.5 without any problems so far and i remember reading that the NSM type of physics is going to be included in the next "release" of RFB?

[banjo]

The thing to do is play each for a while and decide which you want to stick with. Both are easily installed/uninstalled using JSGME. Both are excellent mods--one is not better than the other--they model certain things differently. RFB is considered to be more hardcore realistic and TMO is considered to be balanced more for realism vs gameplay. However, as each is updated it behooves one to try each update.

[DeepIron]

Originally Posted by IronPerch

I have been runnign NSM with RFB 1.5 without any problems so far and i remember reading that the NSM type of physics is going to be included in the next "release" of RFB?

Yep. Sinking physics is being completely reworked from scratch for the next evolution of RFB. There's a tremendous amount of work and testing going into this, (along with other aspects of RFB as well) so be prepared for some very realistic torpedo damage and sinkings!

BTW, you can use NSM with RFB but it's not totally compatible, but no show stoppers either. Just be sure to load NSM *before* RFB...

Originally Posted by IronPerch

I have been runnign NSM with RFB 1.5 without any problems so far

last i heard about NSM was that it was strickly a 1.4 mod but when it was tried it did actually work for 1.5 but not for everyone so i think certain combinations of mods cause issues with this or that so if you notice something is not quite right try removing NSM to see if it might be dissagreeing with some of your mods.

i would imagine, and i hope that they put out a new revamped NSM made for 1.5 after they finish with the big mod

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

last i heard about NSM was that it was strickly a 1.4 mod but when it was tried it did actually work for 1.5 but not for everyone so i think certain combinations of mods cause issues with this or that so if you notice something is not quite right try removing NSM to see if it might be dissagreeing with some of your mods.

i would imagine, and i hope that they put out a new revamped NSM made for 1.5 after they finish with the big mod

Well, that's the advantage of your small mod strategy. With a large mod, it's NEVER finished! You can say, "I want torpedoes to explode a little more powerfully," do it and be done. That's a big advantage.

The problem with NSM is that each ship has its own characteristics in the mod. Since the publication of NSM, many new ship types have been introduced, none of which is covered by RFB or TMO. Then, the settings in NSM override some desirable characteristics of both mods, resulting in some pretty comical sinking behavior sometimes. Like you said, it's nothing deal-breaking. But it is enough that the RFB team is working on a replacement to be part of RFB and most probably released independently as well.

It is a monumental undertaking because each ship must be individually tuned in its own file within the mod. Each ship has to be tweaked, tested, tweaked.... repeat as necessary. Each test means restarting the game. So the cycle is more like tweak, restart, (Q@#$@#!$!!!), test, (@!#$$~!!!), tweak, restart, cuss some more, repeat until exhausted.

It will be worth the wait.

PS-- Man, Fay (the Joker) is really playing with my Internet tonight.

[DrBeast]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

The problem with NSM is that each ship has its own characteristics in the mod. Since the publication of NSM, many new ship types have been introduced, none of which is covered by RFB or TMO. Then, the settings in NSM override some desirable characteristics of both mods, resulting in some pretty comical sinking behavior sometimes. Like you said, it's nothing deal-breaking. But it is enough that the RFB team is working on a replacement to be part of RFB and most probably released independently as well.

It is a monumental undertaking because each ship must be individually tuned in its own file within the mod. Each ship has to be tweaked, tested, tweaked.... repeat as necessary. Each test means restarting the game. So the cycle is more like tweak, restart, (Q@#$@#!$!!!), test, (@!#$$~!!!), tweak, restart, cuss some more, repeat until exhausted.

It will be worth the wait.

Not to mention the various ship types introduced by mods such as RSRDC and/or OM. All in all, a royal headache!
With regards to the two mods, what it really boils down to is: it's a matter of personal preference. Try them both, keep the one you like and, if you're feeling adventurous enough, READ READ READ READ this forum to understand how things work and maybe do a mix and match? It's not really that hard, once you get the hang of it

[Observer]

Just to add some additional info based on parts I've had direct involvement with...

The fleet boat damage model is totally different. Get hit by large caliber naval gunfire, you die. Quickly. Get hit by small caliber gunfire your crew dies. Quickly. Get hit by a close DC and you're going to have various different systems damaged. If you get damaged badly enough, you may even have to combat flooding. This in turn will make it very difficult to maintain depth. The days of "hull damage" when below crush depth are gone. Go below crush depth you die. Quickly. If you have a close aboard DC hit that ruptures the pressure hull (formerly the "bulkhead"), you die. Quickly.

Oh and gone are the days of badly damaged equipment still being 100% functional. As equipment receives damage the performance will degrade (for many systems), and if the equipment is damaged enough, it will stop working altogether. Repair times will take much longer than stock SH4, and only light to medium damage can be repaired. Most components when heavily damaged cannot be repaired until the player returns to port.

The players will have to adjust tactics and realize the submarine is not a Tiger Tank(TM) impervious to damage. You don't get in a gunfight with surface combatants or you will die. In fact, you don't really want to risk your boat to armed merchants without the proper tactics. The submarine has distinct strengths and weaknesses that have to be employed properly by the player in order to be most effective.

On the ship damage model, it's not quite as bad as RR would have you believe, but it is time consuming because every ship is unique and requires individual testing. The good news is that I have a good zone template and a good feel for what does and does not work. The other good news is that these ships seem to be a little easier to work with than their SH3 counterparts.

[Peto]

Originally Posted by Observer

Just to add some additional info based on parts I've had direct involvement with...

The fleet boat damage model is totally different. Get hit by large caliber naval gunfire, you die. Quickly. Get hit by small caliber gunfire your crew dies. Quickly. Get hit by a close DC and you're going to have various different systems damaged. If you get damaged badly enough, you may even have to combat flooding. This in turn will make it very difficult to maintain depth. The days of "hull damage" when below crush depth are gone. Go below crush depth you die. Quickly. If you have a close aboard DC hit that ruptures the pressure hull (formerly the "bulkhead"), you die. Quickly.

Oh and gone are the days of badly damaged equipment still being 100% functional. As equipment receives damage the performance will degrade (for many systems), and if the equipment is damaged enough, it will stop working altogether. Repair times will take much longer than stock SH4, and only light to medium damage can be repaired. Most components when heavily damaged cannot be repaired until the player returns to port.

The players will have to adjust tactics and realize the submarine is not a Tiger Tank(TM) impervious to damage. You don't get in a gunfight with surface combatants or you will die. In fact, you don't really want to risk your boat to armed merchants without the proper tactics. The submarine has distinct strengths and weaknesses that have to be employed properly by the player in order to be most effective.

On the ship damage model, it's not quite as bad as RR would have you believe, but it is time consuming because every ship is unique and requires individual testing. The good news is that I have a good zone template and a good feel for what does and does not work. The other good news is that these ships seem to be a little easier to work with than their SH3 counterparts.

From a testing perspective: I've been playing sub sims since Gato came out for the Commodore 64. IMO, Observer's sub damage model is the BEST I have EVER seen/experienced in a simulation. Period.

[Zero Niner]

Excellent post, RR. Your treatise should be cut and stickied for anyone to refer to, when they want to get a gist of what the 2 mods are all about.