Need programming help

wdq4587 · 08-15-08, 04:18 AM

Simply said about realism, there are many aspect you may want add. I think my idea to let the crew have more beard when they patrol long time is cool. But that can not be first list.

And about the medic, I agree you that's the unfinished part of the game. But in fact you can not hope medic can do much in such a little boat in such a big ocean. (I know many people have more confidence on medic in real life than me). And I disagree you with accident not by enemy and illnesses, caption can do nothing with that. Add such things will let the player fell discouragement. (Or you hope the caption decide return to base because one crew illnesses very bad?)

But this discussion is meaning less. As a programmer I can simply tell you is it seems no way to do that unless the developer open they source (may be 10 years later). Just like my beard idea. I don't know does SH3 has script or not (I mean executeable script), but the medic mostly like program in hard code layer.

h.sie · 08-15-08, 04:54 AM

somewhere (i do not know where) i read, that the fatigue of those crew members, which are in the same room with the medic, reduces faster than crew members, which are not in the same room. but i have not tested that.......

Pisces · 08-15-08, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.sie

somewhere (i do not know where) i read, that the fatigue of those crew members, which are in the same room with the medic, reduces faster than crew members, which are not in the same room. but i have not tested that.......

In GWX (2.1) manual, top of page 81. He's not useless. But that depends on the fatigue model you are playing with, and the amount of crew you have.

irish1958 · 08-15-08, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pisces

Quote:

Originally Posted by h.sie

somewhere (i do not know where) i read, that the fatigue of those crew members, which are in the same room with the medic, reduces faster than crew members, which are not in the same room. but i have not tested that.......

In GWX (2.1) manual, top of page 81. He's not useless. But that depends on the fatigue model you are playing with, and the amount of crew you have.

That is true. In my tests I have found that the fatigue will resolve about twice as fast with the medic present. The same is true for the morale problem in the NYGM Mod. However, in game play with various fatigue models, I have found this to be not significant (for my style of play).

bracer · 08-15-08, 11:02 AM

I know some basic programming, I'll try and see if it's something I could manage.
I'll PM you if I get any succes.
Sounds like a great idea!
/Bracer

GlobalExplorer · 08-15-08, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdq4587

But this discussion is meaning less. As a programmer I can simply tell you is it seems no way to do that unless the developer open they source (may be 10 years later). Just like my beard idea. I don't know does SH3 has script or not (I mean executeable script), but the medic mostly like program in hard code layer.

Shut up if you don't know what you're talking about. I have discussed this with irish1958 and the concept seems completely doable if you have an application to modify the crew_config files. My recommendation was to leave it because of complexity and my previous experience with savegame modding, but not because it requires the source code.

irish1958 · 08-15-08, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdq4587

But this discussion is meaning less. As a programmer I can simply tell you is it seems no way to do that unless the developer open they source (may be 10 years later). Just like my beard idea. I don't know does SH3 has script or not (I mean executeable script), but the medic mostly like program in hard code layer.

Shut up if you don't know what you're talking about. I have discussed this with irish1958 and the concept seems completely doable if you have an application to modify the crew_config files. My recommendation was to leave it because of complexity and my previous experience with savegame modding, but not because it requires the source code.

I agree. SH3CMDR writes to these files, and they appear in the game. Also, when I write to these files manually, the changes appear in the game and act as I have said. The en_menu file (or fr_menu or de_menu) must also be changed. Again, when I write to this file manually, the changes appear in the game. Unfortunately, SH3CMDR has ceased development and is no longer offered or supported. Perhaps if someone knows the workings of CMDR, it can be added as a mod to this. The ideal way for the mod to function would be to be as an add-on to SH3CMDR so it would load when the game does. Alternately, it could be activated by adding it to the Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\ folder in the same way that SH3Weather is added.

With no programming skills or knowledge, I cannot go forward with this concept.

This is the SilentHunterIII Mod workshop. The purpose of this forum is to develop mods for SHIII, which is why I have broached this idea. iF it can't be done, so be it.

GlobalExplorer · 08-15-08, 08:04 AM

I am afraid that's the problem, it can be done but it requires programming skills. With no one in sight that is going to do that atm you could lay out your idea in the forum and see whether someone takes it up.

I have thought about whether it could be incorporated into Sh3Gen - and it could - but would be fiendishly complex to use and, since I have finished with this mod, I really don't think I will ever consider major updates like this.

It's still a great idea, but not so much if it stands on it's own. Have you ever thought about combining it with technical faults on the submarine?

irish1958 · 08-15-08, 10:50 AM

GlobalExplorer wrote

It's still a great idea, but not so much if it stands on it's own. Have you ever thought about combining it with technical faults on the submarine?[/quote]

Yes, but the problem is that the disability would show up in the game without any explanation as to what is has happened. For this you need to read the en_menu file and write the explanation in the information box in the game.

GlobalExplorer · 08-15-08, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish1958

Yes, but the problem is that the disability would show up in the game without any explanation as to what is has happened. For this you need to read the en_menu file and write the explanation in the information box in the game.

It could also be made to appear in the war diary (.clg file in savegame).

irish1958 · 08-15-08, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish1958

Yes, but the problem is that the disability would show up in the game without any explanation as to what is has happened. For this you need to read the en_menu file and write the explanation in the information box in the game.

It could also be made to appear in the war diary (.clg file in savegame).

Thanks, I'll check into it and see if it works.

Bracer wrote: " I know some basic programming, I'll try and see if it's something I could manage.
I'll PM you if I get any succes.
Sounds like a great idea!
/Bracer"
Thanks

Friction150 · 08-15-08, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdq4587

But this discussion is meaning less. As a programmer I can simply tell you is it seems no way to do that unless the developer open they source (may be 10 years later). Just like my beard idea. I don't know does SH3 has script or not (I mean executeable script), but the medic mostly like program in hard code layer.

Shut up if you don't know what you're talking about. I have discussed this with irish1958 and the concept seems completely doable if you have an application to modify the crew_config files. My recommendation was to leave it because of complexity and my previous experience with savegame modding, but not because it requires the source code.

WDQ4587- Regardless if you are a programmer, it doesn't mean you know every program that's out there. I've written programs before, but I will fully admit that I don't know very much about SH3 programming. This conversation is not meaningless. I've seen many "meaningless" conversations and "dumb" ideas turn into gold on here.

I agree with GlobalExplorer. It could be done, the question is: Is it worth the time invested into it to do it. You would have to test alot of unseen aspects of the game, and you would have bugs to fix. It could possibly be done with crew config files, just like fatigue is. Just my 2 cents. I hate hearing that things can't be done without someone at least trying.

wdq4587 · 08-15-08, 07:23 PM

Really interesting reply. Speak loud dos not mean you got the truth. I know that medic is not total useless in game, but what you can change (I mean all the modder can change) is only under the game developer programming frame. That sometimes really let the addon maker fell discouragement.

Just tell me what you thinking you can do with medic and the distance between what you can do with the irish1958's hope? Does there are any possibility to implement "unexpected accidents, illnesses, deaths, and disabilities"?

And if anyone know there are executeable script (I mean support if else for while) in sh3, please tell me where I can found it. I will check it. Simply said without a running able script or program language code. You can not program. Whether you thinking what you doing are how near the program.

If you want change the crew_config files, you don't need program skill, you just need take too much time to change it and see what happen. Although the program skill will help and let you know where is the limit, because the programmer can guess what other programmer (I mean game developer) thinking. I really see some addon maker have do something I said impossible in other game. But that's not the way I am thinking, it just looks like it works, but in fact not the really function we expected.

Friction150 · 08-15-08, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdq4587

Really interesting reply. Speak loud dos not mean you got the truth. I know that medic is not total useless in game, but what you can change (I mean all the modder can change) is only under the game developer programming frame. That sometimes really let the addon maker fell discouragement.

Just tell me what you thinking you can do with medic and the distance between what you can do with the irish1958's hope? Does there are any possibility to implement "unexpected accidents, illnesses, deaths, and disabilities"?

And if anyone know there are executeable script (I mean support if else for while) in sh3, please tell me where I can found it. I will check it. Simply said without a running able script or program language code. You can not program. Whether you thinking what you doing are how near the program.

If you want change the crew_config files, you don't need program skill, you just need take too much time to change it and see what happen. Although the program skill will help and let you know where is the limit, because the programmer can guess what other programmer (I mean game developer) thinking. I really see some addon maker have do something I said impossible in other game. But that's not the way I am thinking, it just looks like it works, but in fact not the really function we expected.

Speak loud? I wasn't speaking loud, I wasn't speaking at all actually. I'm typing. I never said I knew the truth, in fact, in my last post, did I not say "I've written programs before, but I will fully admit that I don't know very much about SH3 programming."

Secondly, As I said, just about every aspect of this game has been changed before in one way or another. You were the one to announce that it couldn't be done, and if it could, it wasn't worth it. You are also the one that said this conversation is pointless. This might sound ignorant, but it's the truth: If you have nothing positive to say, why post? 99.99% of the guys on here that mod and try to mod do so as a hobby. None of them are getting paid for it. We're all here helping each other, or at the very least, offering support. So that's the choices: Help it, Support it, Or leave it alone.

Also, every game has scripting, even if it is small. This game has scripts as well. What controls what happens when torpedos hit? Or when a ship takes on to much water? Those figures are scripts in the sense that they control what goes on in a game. It's not the real world, so everything needs to be programmed to run correctly. Any program that doesn't have these figures is an empty shell, and will not function.

Sorry guys (modders and friends), people like this make me mad. They jump in an nail people for ideas and then they are the first people to b**** when nothing new comes out, or there is a problem with a mod...

wdq4587 · 08-16-08, 03:19 AM

Don't be mad. Don't say impossible is nothing. And don't say "every aspect of this game has been changed". There are many aspect I want to change that can not be change. I want the sea graphics in SH4. I want the measure distance method in SH4 (show 2 image at same time). I want can not hear the sound from another ship in sonar if there are land between my u-boat and that ship. I want I can control pump how much water. But I know there are no way to get these in SH3.

I just make a littel mod patch to against one program flaw on TDC auto update. If I can touch the game source code, I only need change about 10 to 30 lines. But the fact is I took much time to struggle with that flaw. And the solution is not perfect. Although I am glad to think it's acceptable and helpful.

And about script. Some game do have running able script (I mean in fact a program language like Lua). But these config files you called script are not really script. They are in fact data file. The program read these as parameters to decide what to do. So you can change do how much, or even not to do, but you can not let program do some new thing that not designed to do.

As I said above sometimes someone can let other people think they did it! But only 2 possibility: one is just look like, one is someone luck to found the programmer disabled part (mostly unfinished and with bugs). There are another possibility is that someone is a hacker, then he can really do that, he can change the program behavior. But I am not a hacker, you are not a hacker, 99.9% mod or addon maker are not a hacker. That's the fact, and welcome to real world.

08-15-08, 08:04 AM	#8
GlobalExplorer Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 2,015 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 0	I am afraid that's the problem, it can be done but it requires programming skills. With no one in sight that is going to do that atm you could lay out your idea in the forum and see whether someone takes it up. I have thought about whether it could be incorporated into Sh3Gen - and it could - but would be fiendishly complex to use and, since I have finished with this mod, I really don't think I will ever consider major updates like this. It's still a great idea, but not so much if it stands on it's own. Have you ever thought about combining it with technical faults on the submarine? __________________

08-15-08, 10:50 AM	#9
irish1958 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 3,250 Downloads: 320 Uploads: 11	GlobalExplorer wrote It's still a great idea, but not so much if it stands on it's own. Have you ever thought about combining it with technical faults on the submarine?[/quote] Yes, but the problem is that the disability would show up in the game without any explanation as to what is has happened. For this you need to read the en_menu file and write the explanation in the information box in the game. __________________ Irish1958

08-15-08, 04:18 AM	#1
wdq4587 A-ganger Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 71 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Simply said about realism, there are many aspect you may want add. I think my idea to let the crew have more beard when they patrol long time is cool. But that can not be first list. And about the medic, I agree you that's the unfinished part of the game. But in fact you can not hope medic can do much in such a little boat in such a big ocean. (I know many people have more confidence on medic in real life than me). And I disagree you with accident not by enemy and illnesses, caption can do nothing with that. Add such things will let the player fell discouragement. (Or you hope the caption decide return to base because one crew illnesses very bad?) But this discussion is meaning less. As a programmer I can simply tell you is it seems no way to do that unless the developer open they source (may be 10 years later). Just like my beard idea. I don't know does SH3 has script or not (I mean executeable script), but the medic mostly like program in hard code layer.

08-15-08, 04:54 AM	#2
h.sie Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,192 Downloads: 131 Uploads: 0	somewhere (i do not know where) i read, that the fatigue of those crew members, which are in the same room with the medic, reduces faster than crew members, which are not in the same room. but i have not tested that.......

08-15-08, 11:02 AM	#5
bracer Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 798 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I know some basic programming, I'll try and see if it's something I could manage. I'll PM you if I get any succes. Sounds like a great idea! /Bracer

08-15-08, 07:23 PM	#13
wdq4587 A-ganger Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 71 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Really interesting reply. Speak loud dos not mean you got the truth. I know that medic is not total useless in game, but what you can change (I mean all the modder can change) is only under the game developer programming frame. That sometimes really let the addon maker fell discouragement. Just tell me what you thinking you can do with medic and the distance between what you can do with the irish1958's hope? Does there are any possibility to implement "unexpected accidents, illnesses, deaths, and disabilities"? And if anyone know there are executeable script (I mean support if else for while) in sh3, please tell me where I can found it. I will check it. Simply said without a running able script or program language code. You can not program. Whether you thinking what you doing are how near the program. If you want change the crew_config files, you don't need program skill, you just need take too much time to change it and see what happen. Although the program skill will help and let you know where is the limit, because the programmer can guess what other programmer (I mean game developer) thinking. I really see some addon maker have do something I said impossible in other game. But that's not the way I am thinking, it just looks like it works, but in fact not the really function we expected.

08-16-08, 03:19 AM	#15
wdq4587 A-ganger Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 71 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Don't be mad. Don't say impossible is nothing. And don't say "every aspect of this game has been changed". There are many aspect I want to change that can not be change. I want the sea graphics in SH4. I want the measure distance method in SH4 (show 2 image at same time). I want can not hear the sound from another ship in sonar if there are land between my u-boat and that ship. I want I can control pump how much water. But I know there are no way to get these in SH3. I just make a littel mod patch to against one program flaw on TDC auto update. If I can touch the game source code, I only need change about 10 to 30 lines. But the fact is I took much time to struggle with that flaw. And the solution is not perfect. Although I am glad to think it's acceptable and helpful. And about script. Some game do have running able script (I mean in fact a program language like Lua). But these config files you called script are not really script. They are in fact data file. The program read these as parameters to decide what to do. So you can change do how much, or even not to do, but you can not let program do some new thing that not designed to do. As I said above sometimes someone can let other people think they did it! But only 2 possibility: one is just look like, one is someone luck to found the programmer disabled part (mostly unfinished and with bugs). There are another possibility is that someone is a hacker, then he can really do that, he can change the program behavior. But I am not a hacker, you are not a hacker, 99.9% mod or addon maker are not a hacker. That's the fact, and welcome to real world.