The Arctic holds 90 billion barrels of oil

[Zachstar]

Subman, mixing false statements with crap is not going to get you a win here. Just like the conspiricy crap about GW.

We can't drill our way out for 2 reasons. The exact 2 that has been shown why corn will not save us.

Time and Damage

Drilling in the gulf will take almost a decade at BEST to get something more than a tiny bit on the market. Yet repubs talk like it will save the world now. In that timespan the amount of gas hogs in china will grow greatly. So prices will not drop.

Also oil is mostly dead algae from LONG ago. Trapped CO2 that needs to stay trapped. Getting it out to play will only cause more damage in the future that will continue to eat into disaster reserves. (Note with Corn the damage comes from vastly increased food prices)

You are not going to drill out of this. In 10 years we will have something better anyway. If it be Full spectrum thin film solar, Cheap Wind, or Bussard Fusion.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

I have serious doubts about this "Air Car" Tho I am trying to keep open minded about it. I have heard rumors about huge losses and large charge times equaling large power bill growth.


My bets are on Zenn and EEstor but we can only win if these two are competing against each other.

Search youtube for "Guy Negre", that is the engineer. The material there is not the short report I saw ion German TV today, and the car on Tv looked more ugly, but it is the same inventor. Data varies. One tankload of compressed air is either 100km in rnage, or 200 km, or 200 miles. Tanking air lasts 3-5 minutes, costinging you around 1.50 Euros or 1.50 Dollars (the energy needed to compressor the air) - depends on wether you watch CNN or BBC. costs one year ago were said to be 15.000 bucks, today are projected to be around 3500-5000 bucks.

The car is not an electric car - it does not get charged as you said.




Negre is heavily supported by financial investors. The cars are to go into mass production next year.

[Zachstar]

The term charge is not limited to electric.

I will take a look. It is about time I got updated on it anyway. (Before ZENN kicks its ass)

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

The term charge is not limited to electric.

My fault - not my native language. anyway, they say it takes minutes only.

[Zachstar]

I just watched those videos but the 2nd one is rather.. Weird. Which explains the username who uploaded it. You do no favors posting it...

Onboard air generator powered by air to make air to run the car forever? Give me a break!

Anyway I don't think the inventor is making such a stupid claim so ok...

The car looks sound tho for most Americans the Hybrid version will be needed, Tho it seems to be able to go long distances on a single tank of gas so it aint THAT bad.

Overall it seems sound but I question the performance. ZENN with its EEstor battery which is also going to be used for military applications seems much more "likely" with its performance claims.

But to get back on topic with this. Note Subman how tech currently in development is undermining the need for oil. We need our investments in these bits of tech to Beat China or otherwise China will suck down every drop of oil not from our borders.

You aren't going to beat a hyper growing economy like china by drilling for more oil.

[Zachstar]

Ok now that I have done more research I can't say I am too impressed with the progress of this Compressed Air Car.

It seems the project has been off and on for a long time.

It seems the car has been delayed by almost a decade now. Will it beat Duke Nukem? And it seems the best we in the US can hope for is to get orders in by 2010.

It seems that there is about to be a legal battle by two companies.

I had to actually look around to find news. And the newest news item seems to be a clip of the car on MSNBC months ago.

Etc...

Now investing in this sure as hell beats drilling for more oil when you got a large car company supporting it. But I think I will remain a skeptic on it for now.

EEstor technology has better applications. Has the ability to be used in a greater abount of cars initially. Can replace the heavy battery packs on hybrids. Etc...

Also I think EEstor is going to be better for the environment overall. Because when people start converting there is going to be more pressure on Coal plants. And id rather "Sponge" up the electrons than do some conversion which likely has quite a bit in losses.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Subman, mixing false statements with crap is not going to get you a win here. Just like the conspiricy crap about GW.

We can't drill our way out for 2 reasons. The exact 2 that has been shown why corn will not save us.

Time and Damage

Drilling in the gulf will take almost a decade at BEST to get something more than a tiny bit on the market. Yet repubs talk like it will save the world now. In that timespan the amount of gas hogs in china will grow greatly. So prices will not drop.

Also oil is mostly dead algae from LONG ago. Trapped CO2 that needs to stay trapped. Getting it out to play will only cause more damage in the future that will continue to eat into disaster reserves. (Note with Corn the damage comes from vastly increased food prices)

You are not going to drill out of this. In 10 years we will have something better anyway. If it be Full spectrum thin film solar, Cheap Wind, or Bussard Fusion.

Hahahaha! Not even going to answer this! It shows your ignorance.

-S

PS. Search these things before you bother to reply:

Oil Shale

Tar Sands

Gulf Oil

Pacific Oil

Atlantic Oil

Coal to Oil

ANWR

All of these add up to 300 years in our own backyard.

[Zachstar]

Just you saying Coal to Oil ought to raise many red flags. Do you have ANY idea how nasty that process is?

Then again you don't believe in man influenced GW either so you are not on any solid ground to assume my knowledge.

300 years at what cost? 20 dollars a gal? 50? 100?

China is not going to stop and say "We are sorry for growing" People growing up are not going say "screw it" to driving.

Those things are little more than dollar signs to big oil. No thanks.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Just you saying Coal to Oil ought to raise many red flags. Do you have ANY idea how nasty that process is?

300 years at what cost? 20 dollars a gal? 50? 100?

China is not going to stop and say "We are sorry for growing" People growing up are not going say "screw it" to driving.

Those things are little more than dollar signs to big oil. No thanks.

Try $25 for a 55 gallon barrel, with less pollution than converting normal oil to gas.

-S

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Try $25 for a 55 gallon barrel, with less pollution than converting normal oil to gas.

-S

*Yawn*

[Frame57]

I agree with Subman on most of this, but i heard that we could have 1000 years of resources if we would just go get it. heard it on the Savage radio show.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by Frame57

I agree with Subman on most of this, but i heard that we could have 1000 years of resources if we would just go get it. heard it on the Savage radio show.

Ah Savage!

http://www.cleveland.com/tv/index.ss..._drops_ra.html

The talk-show host last week described autism as a racket and said 99 percent of autistic children needed fathers to tell them to stop acting "like a moron."
....
Savage, who claims more than 8 million listeners a week, later posted a message on his Web site saying greedy doctors and drug companies were overdiagnosing autism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold..._b_115873.html

I'll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is. What do you mean they scream and they're silent? They don't have a father around to tell them, 'Don't act like a moron. You'll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a putz. Straighten up. Act like a man. Don't sit there crying and screaming, idiot.'

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BAOU120FGO.DTL

"Michael Savage's remarks were hurtful to the safety and the well-being of vulnerable children and we want him off the air," said Evelyn Ain, president of Autism United in Long Island, whose 8-year-old son has autism. "If this (KNEW) and other radio stations don't stop carrying Savage's signal, then we will pursue every advertiser until they drop him."

[Zachstar]

To get back on topic a little bit. I have some good news.

http://media.cleantech.com/3174/eest...itor-milestone

Richard Weir, president and CEO of EEStor, told the Cleantech Group his company's certification announcement is significant.
"It certainly allows us to meet present specifications and major advances in energy storage in the future," he said. "It'll meet the voltage, we say that, it'll meet the polarization, saturation, we say that."
EEStor is developing an ultracapacitor which it said will be longer lasting, lighter, more powerful, and more environmentally friendly than current battery technologies.

So the bull**** about "Clean-Coal" "300 year oil" or whatever is unneeded. The rest of the world is moving on. And the coal companies can spend the extra profits as plants go to near 100 percent at night to charge the Car Batteries to invest in Full Spectrum Solar, Solar Heat, Fusion, or wind. Or fail to adapt and fail as a buisness.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Ok now that I have done more research I can't say I am too impressed with the progress of this Compressed Air Car.

It seems the project has been off and on for a long time.

It seems the car has been delayed by almost a decade now. Will it beat Duke Nukem? And it seems the best we in the US can hope for is to get orders in by 2010.

It seems that there is about to be a legal battle by two companies.

I had to actually look around to find news. And the newest news item seems to be a clip of the car on MSNBC months ago.

Etc...

Now investing in this sure as hell beats drilling for more oil when you got a large car company supporting it. But I think I will remain a skeptic on it for now.

EEstor technology has better applications. Has the ability to be used in a greater abount of cars initially. Can replace the heavy battery packs on hybrids. Etc...

Also I think EEstor is going to be better for the environment overall. Because when people start converting there is going to be more pressure on Coal plants. And id rather "Sponge" up the electrons than do some conversion which likely has quite a bit in losses.

I once again must point at German TV news yesterday. It is father and son, working on it since 14 years and having solid finacial support by inverstors, and the car now finished for serial productioin which is set to begin next year. 14 years for a new technology like this is not much. Also if they are ready for mass production already now, it means that nobody is as far with his homework like they are, or is too dumb to release it now. And the final price is a killer. Note the two videos I linked up are one year old.

However, I do not want to talk you into buying one. And once again, it is no electrically driven car. Battery sizes are not an issue here. the pressured air drives the pistons in the engine directly.

Also remember that this is just a first design, the model T of new ET-optimised cars. The future will bring even more improvements of it, more HP, and even greater range. I would say 800 km by use of onboard compressor already now is totally acceptable. There are gasoline-driven cars don'T reaching that far.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Ah Savage!

http://www.cleveland.com/tv/index.ss..._drops_ra.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold..._b_115873.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BAOU120FGO.DTL

That Savage guy must be a totally incompetent idiot if he is ventilating the compressed air from his brain this way. Disgusting.

Frame, you must not believe everything you've heared.