This is Interesting

[Dr.Sid]

Hey no ideology here please .. :hmm:

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Maiale

What is a "European Military"? When will Americans understand that Europe is not set up like the US..? Europe isn't made up of different states but different NATIONS!! Every nation chooses it's own policy whether leaning more towards socialism or not...who more who less. But that's quite funny since Britain has been a democracy since before the US even existed. I don't see how a country like Britain is any more "socialist" than the US, to be honest.

And European militaries do a perfectly fine job...we don't invade countries at a whim like the US so all we really need is a defensive force, which they do a splendid job (when was the last time a European nation was invaded? 60 years?). I see someone has never been to Europe to actually see how it is...not how Tom Clancy thinks it is. I can see how the US got into trouble in Iraq because your way of thinking about the world is completely wrong..I would put down that as more worrying than actually not being able to do algebra and such. Seriously...for someone who harps on about "lack of education" you do display a surprising amount of ignorance my dear Sea Queen. :rotfl:

p.s. Ban me, suspend me I don't care, but I as a European, find such hypocritical and untrue bigotry offensive. Shame on you....and we're supposed to be allies? puh...you make the US sound like imperialist despots.. Yeah...the US is working...right....that's why your economy is down the crapper...right.

Settle down dude, there is nothing coming anywhere near bigotry in that post.

And seriously, not that it's what SQ said, but Europe is headed for a unified system. Ever heard of the EC and EU? :rotfl: You don't quite have a federal system yet, but it's not a stretch to call it a confederacy. You very well could have a federal system in a couple more decades.

And our economy is doing fine, thanks. Unemployment is low, GDP is holding steady. Having to deal with reduced growth due to higher input prices is hardly "down the crapper." "Shame on you" for getting swept away in whatever sensationalistic crap is being thrown at you by your media.

And if you think the reason we got into trouble in Iraq is because "our way of thinking" is different from yours, your lack of miltiary knowledge--or even awareness of public events--is astounding.

Just for future reference, if you have a disagreement about something someone said, you may want to think things through before going on a crazy rant where you make yourself look twice as bad. It's always fun to watch self-pwnage though, so thanks!

[Frame57]

Too much Tobasco in his bloody mary makes for a hot head.

[Maiale]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Settle down dude, there is nothing coming anywhere near bigotry in that post.

And seriously, not that it's what SQ said, but Europe is headed for a unified system. Ever heard of the EC and EU? :rotfl: You don't quite have a federal system yet, but it's not a stretch to call it a confederacy. You very well could have a federal system in a couple more decades.

And our economy is doing fine, thanks. Unemployment is low, GDP is holding steady. Having to deal with reduced growth due to higher input prices is hardly "down the crapper." "Shame on you" for getting swept away in whatever sensationalistic crap is being thrown at you by your media.

And if you think the reason we got into trouble in Iraq is because "our way of thinking" is different from yours, your lack of miltiary knowledge--or even awareness of public events--is astounding.

Just for future reference, if you have a disagreement about something someone said, you may want to think things through before going on a crazy rant where you make yourself look twice as bad. It's always fun to watch self-pwnage though, so thanks!

Oh please...get off your high horse, "dude"...it doesn't suit you. As a former member of the armed forces of a European "socialist" nation, I took offence at someone saying we have dug a hole for ourselves. Which is completely untrue. Europe is in a very good state militarily, unlike the US which cannot fulfill recruitment goals (another media made-up story? funny...because it comes from your media...and government). Italy has gone from an inefficient conscription army, to a much smaller and cost-efficient professional army and were the third largest force in Iraq...all in the last decade...yes Italy. Britain has just ordered some new aircraft carriers and has put orders to buy planes from the US to jump off them. We have also started our own nuclear deterent force including British made missiles so we can close US bases and will be completely self-sufficient. Germany has become a premier miltary fighting force and France always was...and that's just a small example. So much for being in a "hole".

On the other hand, the US military doesn't look too good especially when you can't even sort out Iraq and you're pretty much over-stretched...and you're sabre rattling with Iran? That's pretty brave...or stupid. Ask the poor marines who are on their 4th tour if your military is working...

And your economy is going so good is it? So why are millions of Americans on food stamps...and yes, official unemployment is low (by US standards...we have much lower unemployment in Britain...look it up) but that's not counting the 13 million illegal mexicans. Not to mention your housing market is in the crapper...go on, deny that. :rotfl:

You know...even though your crappy economy and the billions you spent on a pointless war nearly brought down the European economy, we are actually doing rather well...we don't have poor people like the ones who live in New Orleans or Detroit which is more reminiscent with an African country.

So much for allies...next time I hope we leave you with your cock in your hands....I think Iran will kick your butts...bahahaha

[Dr.Sid]

Get lost flamer.

[Maiale]

With pleasure...don't want to be on a board with a bunch of fat obese american arseholes who think they can do no wrong. Enjoy your bigoted views and ***** can ****** my ****ing americans...hope you get ****ed up by Iran... Iraq is ****ing you guys pretty badly not to mention goat herders in Stan.

****ing fat, ignorant american ****s...the whole ****ing world hates you...

[Maiale]

please close my account...or don't...I'll just not visit anymore. one more fuk off from me and your ****y country...

[Dr.Sid]

Lol .. he just wont shut up :rotfl:

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Maiale

...I'll just not visit anymore.

I hope you do.

[XabbaRus]

OK Maiale I didn't see this. 24 hour ban...

[goldorak]

Maiale you can disagree with SeaQueen, just be a little more diplomatic about it.
No need to resort to insult.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Maiale

What is a "European Military"?

A European military is chronically underfunded, consists mostly of conscripts, lacks strategic lift capability, and is ultimately unable to even do the little bit of peacekeeping they claim to do because they have to rely on a superpower to transport them there.

Seriously...for someone who harps on about "lack of education" you do display a surprising amount of ignorance my dear Sea Queen.

I think that the European governments spend too little on defense than is actually even in their own interests. The world would be more secure if Europeans made a commitment to even little things like having strategic lift capability or building real aircraft carriers. Interestingly, a lot of the NATO guys I've met agree with me on that point. It isn't about imperialism. It's about maintaining a prosperous, free world.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by jmr

Naw, they just end up working for Google rather than Boeing.

That too. I'm thinking of sending 'em my resume, because being a defense contractor is just an exercise in frustration.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Pisces

Ehm, how much of this topic still has to do with reliability (or lack thereof) of the real-live TB-29?

None. I was opined and now I'm being punished for it.

[OneShot]

To stay a bit longer OT ... I think the USN and the Navies in Europe do have a different way to go out things. While the USN tries to cover all its bases within itself the Navies in Europe are heading for specializing their capabilities and thus are not able to do everything by themselves. Ultimately this might/will lead to one European Navy consisting of units from all European Nations. The reasons for this path might be various tho my guess is that the main one is simply Money. It costs a hell of a lot to finance a navy that can do everything you want from a Navy as the USN aptly demonstrates. Thats not something the European Nations even the Brits or France are willing to do. Thus some capabilties are not or only limited available to any one Navy if viewed alone. However together the Navies do have those capabilities (just not in one convenient package).

Now is this concept good or bad in comparison to a single Navy with all capabilities? I think the answer to that depends on a lot of factors some of them are biased (by Mentality, Ideology and so on).

As for the quality of the personnel ... well lets agree on the fact that there are always good and bad apples on the cart ... but personnaly I just don't have enough information to make a sound judgement on way or another. From what I know it seems that for example the way people are trained to work and function are different between the USN and Germany (for example). Is one way better than the other ... no idea - would have to do some scientific experiments for that which I doubt will happen in the foreseeable future. So its back to square one with the statement ... there are differences.

Cheers
OS