An American idol in Germany

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by AntEater

I thought this topic was about Kelly Clarkson or something like that....
:rotfl:

Yeah when i first read the title I was expecting a thread about David Hasselhoff!

[Frame57]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Well, Ferraris and Aston Martins are very special cars. Although I don't see why a Porsche 911 shouldn't keep up with them. Its technology is among the best you can get for money. I don't know that much about the technology behind the Corvette.

Well that's 63 years ago, how about we talk of todays situation.

Nope, I don't. But have a look at the events again. And then please show me where Germany started it all.

Perhaps they did not directly, but indirectly they wanted Austria to declare war on Serbia and supported the declaration of war and were clearly ramping up their war machine prior to this. Even though Austria is a seperate Country it is perceived in the west as being a subsidiary of Germany.

[Skybird]

that was it, the speech has been delivered. Against my usual habit to simply ignore politicians and their oh so precious speeches, I watched it from beginning to end. berlin police said there has been an audience of 215.000. There are 12.000 Americans living in Berlin.

I think it was an extremely clever speech, and he hit the right tone. Of course - I remain to be a realist, and politicians and speeches... you know the story. But i would say this: McCain should not complain that the media do not like him so much, in handling the media and afdressing people, Obama is so much more intelligent than McCain, despite McCain's reputation of having free, liberal relations to the press. Then the difference between Obama in Berlin, and bush duing his foreign visits - holding a little speech at a handselected audience of sworn in militaries - now compare how easily Obama won the sympathies of the crowds and how relaxed he handled them afterwards! That is worlds apart.

I would say this: Obama expressed a lot of those things that I aolso, here and there in various threads expressed to be desirable in the relations between America, and europe. IF he would get elected, and IF he would turn out to be a president who really acts like he talks, and puts his deeds to where his speech was leading, it could turn out to be a very good presidency for america, and a better, though more mutually demanding relation between the Us, and Europe.

IF. We need to wait and learn what will come of that IF.

I just wonder if all German really understood that on certain issues like Iran he indicated that he has no intention to adapt the european way of doing, and that his stressing of mutual partnership includes the Europeans and namely germany to invest more - last but not least into the military factor. Foreign minister Steinmeier always speaks slow and tired like an old grandfather, but today's news item after he met Obama showed him commenting with a voice that sounded even for his standards somewhat bewildered or disillusioned to me. I think many people in the governemnt and especially in the SPD party will need to learn that just because Obama is not Bush this does not mean that he plans to all-embrace the SPD's unrealistic visions and diplomatic ways of dealing questions of foreign policies.

the worstening of relations in the past eight years, has been the responsibility of a stupid, unknowing and unsensible George bush. I start to think that if Obama becomes president, and if - against the current expectations - relations will not improve and partnership will not become as far-reaching as Obama has outlined - this time it will not be america's fault, but the fault of a Germany that in this case would prove to be too unflexible and unrealistical in it's assessment of what it can expect america to be like - and what not. at the next NATO meeting Spring 2009, germany better has learned to see that difference, else we will start to suffer the same mockery and lacking understanding that has been enjoyed by America and George bush in the past eight years.

and we should not repeat the mistakes of Georgie who gave us so much opportunity to laugh and curse - which only means we understood these to be mistakes indeed. we would be even greater fools then, if repeating them in his place, knowingly.

Thanks for paying a visit, senator. I'm not your fan, but I enjoyed your presence nevertheless. And that is a million times more positive than what I have said about Bush's two Germany visits.

[Platapus]

It was a stirring speech. Obama is a good speaker. I did not agree with everything he said in the speech but I don't think there can be anyone that I would totally agree with.

He said some things I liked, somethings I did not like, and a whole bunch of things I don't really care about. But he is a charismatic speaker and that counts in politics (look at Regan).

Still not a solid Obama fan but not an Obama hater either. We have 3 1/2 months to go. Way too early to get spun up on things.

[AntEater]

Actually he didn't say much, but what do you expect from campaign speeches, and from speeches in general.
Not much new to what he said
One thing was interesting was the call for nuclear disarmament, not only from Iran but worldwide. I wonder if he keeps this up during his presidency.
At least he can pronounce "nuclear", so no more "nukular" weapons in "Isreal" with the next president (McCain can also do that, I suppose)

On the whole, he's really a great speaker. Dubya's problem as a speaker (aside from his sloppy pronounciation and general daftness) was that he always tried to be Churchill.
Churchillean pathos requires a real man like Mr. Churchill was to deliver it convincingly. Just having a great backround and an aircraft carrier (for example) does not do the trick.

Obama, while not really imitating Dr. King, has some similarities.
Instead of sticking to the classical roman approach to a speech, his way of speaking is more pastoral, almost musical with recurring themes and refrains.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by AntEater

On the whole, he's really a great speaker. Dubya's problem as a speaker (aside from his sloppy pronounciation and general daftness) was that he always tried to be Churchill.

Not to mention churchillian sarcasm.

Watching Obama holding his speech, I had to remind myself time and again that this is not Denzel Washington in a filmed Obama-biography.

[SUBMAN1]

I'm keeping my mouth shut!

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Let me let the news spell this out for you people:

-S

"While Barack Obama took a premature victory lap today in the heart of Berlin, proclaiming himself a 'citizen of the world,' John McCain continued to make his case to the American citizens who will decide this election. Barack Obama offered eloquent praise for this country, but the contrast is clear.

John McCain has dedicated his life to serving, improving and protecting America. Barack Obama spent an afternoon talking about it."

[Sailor Steve]

Well, I have a very personal reason for not wanting Barack Obama to end up in the White House:

If Obaba is elected, for the first time in my life we'll have a president who is younger than I am.

It's going to happen, but I'd really like to put it off as long as possible.

[Platapus]

Has anyone found a site that has the transcription of his speech?

[Platapus]

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpoi...t_of_obama.php

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Has anyone found a site that has the transcription of his speech?

http://cnn.site.printthis.clickabili...rtnerID=211911

P.S. somebody was faster than me. But my version is more friendly for printing.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Well, I have a very personal reason for not wanting Barack Obama to end up in the White House:

If Obaba is elected, for the first time in my life we'll have a president who is younger than I am.

It's going to happen, but I'd really like to put it off as long as possible.

Better a leader of the nation....then just the young uns

[JoeCorrado]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Has anyone found a site that has the transcription of his speech?

Better than that- watch the speech for yourself.

--

If you are a supporter of Obama's, you will be proud.

If you are not a supporter of Obama, I think you may STILL be proud.

A very moving speech that reminds us of some things, some places, and some truths that we too often forget.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by JoeCorrado

Better than that- watch the speech for yourself.

--

If you are a supporter of Obama's, you will be proud.

If you are not a supporter of Obama, I think you may STILL be proud.

A very moving speech that reminds us of some things, some places, and some truths that we too often forget.

Yes.

I called the speech "clever" in my initial assessement. Clever it was becasue - what many german commentators seem to have missed - he adressed, with a soft hand, quite some issues of conflict between Germany and america, and indicated his stand on these, but gave the impression that he did not touch them at all, and certainly did not become confronting aboiut it. Many commentators did not like the speech over here, saying that he just evaded anything that could have hold any risk. but he did not - if only you listehn to what he said between the lines. He just did not yelled it out loud with trumpets and fanfares. And that is what was clever indeed. Clever also was how he brought the crowd on his side in the first 10-15 minutes, and made it look so easy.

That'S why I called it clever. Compared to that behavior, both Bush and McCain act like elephants in a Chinese shop.

When Bush was in Germany, streets got shut down and isolated. Audience was handpicked. His column raced through the emptied streets where citizens were forbidden to stand by the windows of their own flats and houses. It all reminded - no: it copied the way the old leaders of the communist parties in Eastern nations and in Russia used to move around. Bush never was welcomed over here, and people both let him feel it by not being interested - and were forbidden to show any eventual remains of sympathy as well, for reasons of (paranoid?) security. The Secret Service added its own share to make the wall being erected a perfect one. during his last visit some weeks ago, critics even did not attack him anymore, so uninteresting he had become. Officials surely shook his ahnd and friendly said good-bye before his plane left - nobody spend a second glance at his direction, and medias almost ignored the stay, or reported aboiut it in sprinting speed only. Historx has almost closed the chapter bush, and the verdict, compared to the damage this loser has done, may ironcially still hold comfort and relief for him personally, nevertheless: his farewell is that for a meaningless nobody. and that rules as a kind assessement, considering his record.

But of course: in case of Obama there is the IF. It remains to be seen if as president he would put his deeds to where his mouth is (not sure if that phrase is correct?). the brains he seem to have for sure. And that may be enough to search and find the experts he need to help him over fields of politics where he is unexperienced.

A good king must not know everything himself. A good king must know when to ask and when to listen, and whom to trust to get things done.