New telling of Laconia incident...

[STEED]

You can just see Yosser standing on the docks shouting out, "Give me a job." Before he head-butts them. :rotfl:

[GoldenRivet]

sounds interesting.

am i to understand this is to be a televised event?

[longdog499]

Yes I think so. Alan Bleasdale is a great writer. The other two pieces of his work mentioned in the article were excellent especially ' Boys from the Blackstuff ' which told the story of five Liverpool lads out of work during Thatchers' reign of terror in the Eighties. The other piece, 'The Monocled Mutineer' told the true story of a British soldier who deserted from the army some time during WWI and went on the run from the law. He launched a sort of one-man crime wave and was chased the length and breadth of the UK, hiding at one time incidently in a small chapel a few miles from here. I believe he was eventually shot dead by armed police somewhere in the Lake District. Anyway with a writer of Bleasdales pedigree the new Laconia story should be well worth watching.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by STEED

You can just see Yosser standing on the docks shouting out, "Give me a job." Before he head-butts them. :rotfl:

Or...."I can do that"

If his skills at writing comedy are adaptable to non fiction, it should be well worth a viewing.

I only hope a little of the budget is spent on decent props and not poor 'a little similar looking' crap.

Just the summary of the story got my attention, hopefully they air it on my cable network!

The "against orders of the Nazi high command" comment is a bit of a stretch since BdU actually ordered other U-Boats to U-156's aid prior to the air attack. Still, one can well imagine what a Hollywood version might look like, hopefully this guy can do the incident justice.
Good Hunting

The next morning, September 16, at 11:25am, the four submarines, with Red Cross flags draped across their gun decks, were spotted by an American B-24 Liberator bomber from Ascension Island. Hartenstein signalled to the pilot requesting assistance. Lieutenant James D. Harden of the U.S. Army Air Force turned away and notified his base of the situation. The senior officer on duty that day, Captain Robert C. Richardson III, replied with the order "Sink sub."

********* *******! This is definetely a war crime

[timmy41]

Originally Posted by Contact

The next morning, September 16, at 11:25am, the four submarines, with Red Cross flags draped across their gun decks, were spotted by an American B-24 Liberator bomber from Ascension Island. Hartenstein signalled to the pilot requesting assistance. Lieutenant James D. Harden of the U.S. Army Air Force turned away and notified his base of the situation. The senior officer on duty that day, Captain Robert C. Richardson III, replied with the order "Sink sub."

********* *******! This is definetely a war crime

Any armament on a vessel nulls the protection of the red cross; attacking the submarines was not a war crime, but it was immoral.

[Captain Nemo]

The first episode has now been given a slot in BBC 2's schedule:

Thursday 6 January, 9.00-10.30pm.

No mention yet of when part two is to be shown.

Nemo

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

The "against orders of the Nazi high command" comment is a bit of a stretch since BdU actually ordered other U-Boats to U-156's aid prior to the air attack. Still, one can well imagine what a Hollywood version might look like, hopefully this guy can do the incident justice.
Good Hunting

He is a very well known and respected writer in the UK...so let us all hope he can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Bleasdale

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

The "against orders of the Nazi high command" comment is a bit of a stretch since BdU actually ordered other U-Boats to U-156's aid prior to the air attack. Still, one can well imagine what a Hollywood version might look like, hopefully this guy can do the incident justice.
Good Hunting

Correct,
"Meanwhile, back in U-boat headquarters in Paris, Donitz was startled by Hartenstein’s actions. Although he ordered for no such rescues to take place, this time he not only allowed it, but nevertheless supported it. Donitz would explain many years later, “to give them an order contrary to the laws of humanity would have destroyed it (the crews morale) utterly”.

In fact:
" Admiral Dönitz, immediately ordered two other U-boats to divert to the scene".

Under the Hague Conventions (1899 and 1907)

The Hague Conventions were international treaties negotiated at the First and Second Peace Conferences at The Hague, Netherlands in 1899 and 1907, respectively, and were, along with the Geneva Conventions, among the first formal statements of the laws of war and war crimes in the nascent body of secular international law....
, hospital ships are protected from attack, but their identity must be communicated to belligerents (III, 1-3) (WHICH THE U-BOOT DID), they must be painted white with a Red Cross emblem (III, 5), (OK, SO NOT PAINTED, BUT A FLAG), and must not be used for other purposes (III, 4) (WHICH THE U-BOOT WASN'T). Since a submarine remained a military vessel even if hors de combat.
Hors de Combat, literally meaning "out of the fight," is a French term used in diplomacy and international law to refer to soldiers who are incapable of performing their military function....
, the Red Cross emblem did not confer automatic protection, although in many cases it would have been allowed as a practical matter. The order given by Richardson has been called a possibleWar crime
War crimes are "violations of the laws or customs of war"; including but not limited to "murder, the ill-treatment or deportation of civilian residents of an occupied territory to slave labor camps", "the murder or ill-treatment of prisoner of war", the killing of hostages, "the wanton destruction of cities, towns and villages, and any devast...
, but the use of a Red Cross flag by an armed military vessel would also be a violation.(I CAN SEE WHY, BUT SURELY IT WAS PLAIN TO SEE THAT A RESCUE MISSION WAS IN EFFECT). There is no provision in either convention for temporary designation of a hospital or rescue ship. Under the informal rules of war at sea, however, ships engaged in rescue operations are held immune from attack. (PURELY DISCRETIONARY THIS ONE OBVIOUSLY).

My thoughts are that the bombing and depth-charging was "in very bad taste", that of course is a understatement to say the least, guess i'm being diplomatic.

[Captain Nemo]

Interesting news thanks for posting longdog499. Apparently filming started on this production on 12 September the 67th anniversary of the sinking of Laconia. It's going to be a two part drama each 90 minutes in length. More information when available will be posted on the BBC website here http://www.bbc.co.uk/tv/comingup/sinkingofthelaconia/ . Nothing on there yet but probably worth keeping an eye on.

Nemo

[Ancient Mariner]

So really the pilots/commanders of the us airbase should have been tried as war criminals? If it was obvious a rescue mission was underway and the bombing/depth charging happened wouldnt that be in direct violation of the rules of engagement?

[Schroeder]

Depends on whether you win or loose the war.

[nikbear]

Originally Posted by Ancient Mariner

So really the pilots/commanders of the us airbase should have been tried as war criminals? If it was obvious a rescue mission was underway and the bombing/depth charging happened wouldnt that be in direct violation of the rules of engagement?

Thats what I've always thought,since that was one of the accusations levelled at Doenitz at his warcrimes trial,that his 'Laconia order' amounted to an order to commit murder and open fire on survivors,surely the American commander could have the very same accusation levelled at him