Why 66 + 66 attacks?

[Sailor Steve]

First I've heard of it as well. Where does this "well known" information come from?

[Rosencrantz]

Hello Steve and jimbuna!


First source I found quicly is Clay Blair. In his "Hitler's U-boat War. The Hunters, 1939 - 1942" Blair writes:

Dönitz went to sea on one duck or the other. He was a demanding but fair forgiving instructor(...) Dönitz put the ducks through a variety of drills but the main emphasis was on torpedo shooting. Every duck in the flotilla was required to carry out sixty-six daylight submerged and sixty-six night surface attacks(...)

Modern Library Paperback Edition, 2000. Page 41.

I have seen the same thing mentioned at least in one or two other sources, but Blair was "in hand" just now.


Greetings,
-RC-

Not all U-Boat captains commanded Ducks however. Werner Henke and Englebert Endrass amongst others never commanded school ducks but no doubt trained on them at some point.

Good Hunting

[Bill Nichols]

Interesting info, and your theories are at least plausible. I can't say I've ever heard of this before, hopefully someone here will be able to add more background.

[Sailor Steve]

Well, if Blair said it it's probably true. Sorry for doubting. I still have no clue as to why, though.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Well, if Blair said it it's probably true. Sorry for doubting. I still have no clue as to why, though.

Ditto.....time for a little research

[Rosencrantz]

Yep.

I know my "theory" is just kind of a start, or a "raw version". For example I doubt the approaches starting from "sectors" 5 and 6, astern - at least in the basic torpedo attack training. It's hard to find any real practical use for that kind of drill.

However I think there must have been somekind of basic "system" in the backround, I believe exact 66 attacks can't be explained otherways.

And Steve, it's ok to doubt, sure. Besides, you don't have to read Blair's book so much before finding first mistakes. But who would not make minor errors, if writing a book like that? It has been a huge work, really, and the book is certainly not his only book.

To randomizer: Torpedo training wasn't only duck releated at all. Every single boat in the Kriegsmarine went through certain edjucational program.


-RC-

Neither Peter Cremer or Herbert Warner, both of whom go into some detail on their U-Boat command courses, fix a number of attacks. I wonder if the number 66 might have been related to the standards set by the training flotilla CO or command course officer equivalent.

I am in no way disputing the numbers but I would doubt that it the number was fixed thoughout the war or in any way mandatory, particularly the surface attacks after the introduction of the snorkel in the summer of 1944.

Werner Henke reported for his Commander's course in mid-November 1941 and was at Deutsche Werft shipyards on 12 January 1942 to oversee U-515's final construction. This hardly seems enought time to run 132 seperate torpedo attacks just for him along with all of the other subjects that must have been on the sylabus of the commanding officer's course. If every candidate got 132 attacks, how long would a course serial run? I'm sure a simulator had to be involved, the logistics and cost of shooting, recovering and refurbishing 132 torpedoes per student per course would be huge. Not including the time, cost and effort of providing target ships in what later became the high-risk Baltic training areas.

My comments re Ducks was just because I cannot see how a course candidate would have time to conduct 132 attacks (to which one should add the approach phase as well). However, one who actually commanded a school Duck (like Ali Cremer) might very well have participated in hundreds of attacks as his boat supported various courses and conducted assorted trials.

Edit:
Admittedly, the attack does not have to be live, a water-slug or no shot at all would fit the bill as far as drills are concerned but that still leaves the time and space issues with targets. Is it possible that pre-war courses had 66-submerged and 66-surface attacks on the schedule that all candidates participated in?

Good Hunting