US vs. German subs - which was better?

Sailor Steve · 07-04-08, 11:37 PM

Well, I can't argue with that summation.

Though I'm sure someone will.

_Seth_ · 07-05-08, 01:00 AM

Both the fleet boats and the u-boats were childs of their time, with their technical differences and their main operational theaters. We all know this. At the time they were used, they were the best their country could make. So both types was good, but only good in the setting they were made to perform in.

I agree with Hartmann's excellent statement, it summons it up in details.

Hitman · 07-05-08, 01:36 AM

Apples and Onions

You only can compare a long range Type IXD/2 with a fleet sub, mainly with a Balao (Both the german and american launched in 1943), because the Type VIIC was a much smaller, short range boat designed to operate in packs and closer to the home base. The US boats had to be bigger because they had to go farther -all away across the Pacific- and could not go back quickly to their home bases to refit. They carried therefore a larger load of torpedoes, much more diesel, storage for food and had better living conditions for their crews.

By comparing a Balao and a Type IX/D2, you can notice that:

Type IX/D2 has deeper crush depth
Type IX/D2 has slightly better crash dive times (Only 5 seconds or so)

Balao had higher surface & dived speed
Balao had longer range
Balao had larger torpedo load and bigger guns
Balao had way superior electronics (Radar)

looney · 07-05-08, 02:30 AM

Then again we know that when we play radar is more a magnet to attract the attention of hunter killer groups. Thus radar was nice but imho also very dangerous.

firepower. several convoys got hammered by U-boats. They just took out 1 or 2 ships per day. So 2 torps/ ship was enough mostly. In my book no of tubes isn't that important, it's the number of eels one can carry.

Basically the theater of operations where so different, as where the conditions (winning vs loosing the war). It's impossible to compare both types of subs. Then again I know on which type i wanna be.

The one that brings me home.

Penelope_Grey · 07-05-08, 05:16 AM

America had the better subs for certain things. Though if given a choice between going on a U-Boat or going on a fleet boat in war conditions... I think I would have to pick a fleet boat. Going on a U-Boat would be tantamount to suicide. Not that it wasn't dangerous for the Americans... but god... their losses can't compare to 3 out of 4 submariners dying.

Also one advantage a IXD has over a Balao that Hitman missed is underwater endurance. IXD2's can stay under longer than a Balao can. At least if SH4 and the U-Boat mission expansion are anything to go on...

STEED · 07-05-08, 05:53 AM

U-Boats of WW2 had very little change from those of WW1 and thats why they failed. There was no real big effort to modernize them until it was to late. The XXI shows what they could have done but a lack of thinking and budget sealed the U-Boat fate.

American subs had more going for them as already pointed out.

msalama · 07-05-08, 07:17 AM

Quote:

The XXI shows what they could have done but a lack of thinking and budget sealed the U-Boat fate.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Clay Blair inspect one captured specimen after the war and find her shoddily made? I.e. the design was innovative but the realization somewhat lacking...

PS. Effin' SH3

Crashed just when I was about to attack a BIIIG convoy. Back to a previous save now

07-04-08, 11:37 PM	#1
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Well, I can't argue with that summation. Though I'm sure someone will. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo Last edited by Sailor Steve; 01-27-10 at 12:08 PM.

07-05-08, 01:00 AM	#2
_Seth_ Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: In Tromsoe, @Tirpitz' final resting place.. Posts: 3,277 Downloads: 94 Uploads: 0	Both the fleet boats and the u-boats were childs of their time, with their technical differences and their main operational theaters. We all know this. At the time they were used, they were the best their country could make. So both types was good, but only good in the setting they were made to perform in. I agree with Hartmann's excellent statement, it summons it up in details. __________________

07-05-08, 01:36 AM	#3
Hitman Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 6,109 Downloads: 109 Uploads: 2	Apples and Onions You only can compare a long range Type IXD/2 with a fleet sub, mainly with a Balao (Both the german and american launched in 1943), because the Type VIIC was a much smaller, short range boat designed to operate in packs and closer to the home base. The US boats had to be bigger because they had to go farther -all away across the Pacific- and could not go back quickly to their home bases to refit. They carried therefore a larger load of torpedoes, much more diesel, storage for food and had better living conditions for their crews. By comparing a Balao and a Type IX/D2, you can notice that: Type IX/D2 has deeper crush depth Type IX/D2 has slightly better crash dive times (Only 5 seconds or so) Balao had higher surface & dived speed Balao had longer range Balao had larger torpedo load and bigger guns Balao had way superior electronics (Radar) __________________ One day I will return to sea ...

07-05-08, 05:16 AM	#5
Penelope_Grey Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,893 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	America had the better subs for certain things. Though if given a choice between going on a U-Boat or going on a fleet boat in war conditions... I think I would have to pick a fleet boat. Going on a U-Boat would be tantamount to suicide. Not that it wasn't dangerous for the Americans... but god... their losses can't compare to 3 out of 4 submariners dying. Also one advantage a IXD has over a Balao that Hitman missed is underwater endurance. IXD2's can stay under longer than a Balao can. At least if SH4 and the U-Boat mission expansion are anything to go on... __________________ I SURVIVED THE FIRST EVER SUBSIM WEREWOLF HUNT - and... I actually won the game for the humans too!

07-05-08, 05:53 AM	#6
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	U-Boats of WW2 had very little change from those of WW1 and thats why they failed. There was no real big effort to modernize them until it was to late. The XXI shows what they could have done but a lack of thinking and budget sealed the U-Boat fate. American subs had more going for them as already pointed out. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

07-05-08, 02:30 AM	#4
looney Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sneek, The Netherlands Posts: 635 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Then again we know that when we play radar is more a magnet to attract the attention of hunter killer groups. Thus radar was nice but imho also very dangerous. firepower. several convoys got hammered by U-boats. They just took out 1 or 2 ships per day. So 2 torps/ ship was enough mostly. In my book no of tubes isn't that important, it's the number of eels one can carry. Basically the theater of operations where so different, as where the conditions (winning vs loosing the war). It's impossible to compare both types of subs. Then again I know on which type i wanna be. The one that brings me home.