Federal Stimulus being put to good use I see!

mrbeast · 06-19-08, 07:23 PM

The invasion of the US was never a Japanese war aim; infact war with the US was not even aim! It was British, French and Dutch colonies that were the main target.

The Japanese were relying on the Pearl Harbour raid to neutralise US power in the Pacific and push America towards leaving Japan a free hand in East Asia.

The bottom line is that there was no plan to invade the US mainland armed populace or no.

SUBMAN1 · 06-19-08, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbeast

The invasion of the US was never a Japanese war aim; infact war with the US was not even aim! It was British, French and Dutch colonies that were the main target.

The Japanese were relying on the Pearl Harbour raid to neutralise US power in the Pacific and push America towards leaving Japan a free hand in East Asia.

The bottom line is that there was no plan to invade the US mainland armed populace or no.

BS. Care to support your argument with evidence? If the US were not armed to the teeth, then I can tell you that they would have tried.

Regardless, I proved my point from above. Its not that they didn't want to, it is because it was suicide. Still is.

-S

Platapus · 06-19-08, 07:47 PM

Well do we have access to any documentation of a sincere plan to invade the mainland?

I know that Japan engaged in limited shelling and balloon bombing of the West coast.

From my readings I always got the impression the intent was to constrain the American forces in the Pacific, that is prevent American interference in Japan's plans for SE Asia and East Asia.

It would be interesting to see if there were any viable war plans for the invasion of the continental United States and see how they expected to do it.

The problems for both side of the Pacific would be logistics. Unless the Japanese could secure a base either in Canada or Mexico, logistically supporting a land invasion of the US even from Pearl would be very difficult.

mrbeast · 06-20-08, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbeast

The invasion of the US was never a Japanese war aim; infact war with the US was not even aim! It was British, French and Dutch colonies that were the main target.

The Japanese were relying on the Pearl Harbour raid to neutralise US power in the Pacific and push America towards leaving Japan a free hand in East Asia.

The bottom line is that there was no plan to invade the US mainland armed populace or no.

BS. Care to support your argument with evidence? If the US were not armed to the teeth, then I can tell you that they would have tried.

Regardless, I proved my point from above. Its not that they didn't want to, it is because it was suicide. Still is.

-S

Subman, posting a couple of quotes off websites does not constitute proof of anything.

Besides I might ask you the same question, where is the evidence that Japan seriously planned and intended to invade the US? Where are the plans?

PeriscopeDepth · 06-20-08, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbeast

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbeast

The invasion of the US was never a Japanese war aim; infact war with the US was not even aim! It was British, French and Dutch colonies that were the main target.

The Japanese were relying on the Pearl Harbour raid to neutralise US power in the Pacific and push America towards leaving Japan a free hand in East Asia.

The bottom line is that there was no plan to invade the US mainland armed populace or no.

BS. Care to support your argument with evidence? If the US were not armed to the teeth, then I can tell you that they would have tried.

Regardless, I proved my point from above. Its not that they didn't want to, it is because it was suicide. Still is.

-S

Subman, posting a couple of quotes off websites does not constitute proof of anything.

Besides I might ask you the same question, where is the evidence that Japan seriously planned and intended to invade the US? Where are the plans?

They didn't. At least during WWII.

They planned to stab the American fleet in the eye and sue for peace on terms that favored them. When that didn't work out, they hoped to fight a prolonged defensive action that they hoped the American populace would tire of eventually.

PD

SUBMAN1 · 06-20-08, 12:59 PM

Who ya gonna believe? The speculators on history? Or words taken from the horses mouth as to why the Japanese should now invade? The thought was abbandoned on Yamamoto's recomendation. He also pushed for not attacking Pearl Harbour, but lost that battle.

At least I presented something. Why not give me backup of your opinions with Japanese history taken from the Japanese at the time? Opinions are pretty much worthless here it seems. And common I might add. Link me to hisotric speeches done by the Japanese during WWII!!! I see 'none'.

-S

PeriscopeDepth · 06-20-08, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Who ya gonna believe? The speculators on history? Or words taken from the horses mouth as to why the Japanese should now invade? The thought was abbandoned on Yamamoto's recomendation. He also pushed for not attacking Pearl Harbour, but lost that battle.

At least I presented something. Why not give me backup of your opinions with Japanese history taken from the Japanese at the time? Opinions are pretty much worthless here it seems. And common I might add. Link me to hisotric speeches done by the Japanese during WWII!!! I see 'none'.

-S

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AMH/AMH/AMH-23.html

Quote:

Japan entered World War II with limited aims and with the intention of fighting a limited war.

They never planned to invade the United States during WWII. They never intended to fight a prolonged battle, as they knew they couldn't win such a fight. They intended to knock the American fleet out, grab what resources they could in SE Asia, and negotiate a peace on favorable terms.

By the way, I highly reccomend "Sea of Thunder: Four Commanders and the Last Great Naval campaign 1941-1945" by Evan Thomas. Very readable, shows the campaign from both sides using personal documents from several commanders.

PD

August · 06-20-08, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

They planned to stab the American fleet in the eye and sue for peace on terms that favored them. When that didn't work out, they hoped to fight a prolonged defensive action that they hoped the American populace would tire of eventually.

PD

Pearl wasn't the only US military asset invaded in Dec '41. What about Wake island and the Philippines?

Platapus · 06-20-08, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

They planned to stab the American fleet in the eye and sue for peace on terms that favored them. When that didn't work out, they hoped to fight a prolonged defensive action that they hoped the American populace would tire of eventually.

PD

Pearl wasn't the only US military asset invaded in Dec '41. What about Wake island and the Philippines?

yeah everyone forgets the other targets on 7 Dec

PeriscopeDepth · 06-20-08, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

They planned to stab the American fleet in the eye and sue for peace on terms that favored them. When that didn't work out, they hoped to fight a prolonged defensive action that they hoped the American populace would tire of eventually.

PD

Pearl wasn't the only US military asset invaded in Dec '41. What about Wake island and the Philippines?

True, they certainly got hit too. And the Brits in Singapore.

PD

Lurchi · 06-20-08, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbeast

Besides I might ask you the same question, where is the evidence that Japan seriously planned and intended to invade the US? Where are the plans?

He won't deliver because there weren't any. Invasion was impossible and the japanese knew it right from the start. They never even tried to seize Hawaii which would have been necessary before one could even think about this next step.

The japanese navy was against the whole war anyway and the army favoured the drive south and used all available resources to it which were already limited. I don't think that the japanese were so much impressed by a few rifles and some handguns ...

August · 06-20-08, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurchi

a few rifles and some handguns ...

Yeah keep thinking that...

06-19-08, 07:23 PM	#1
mrbeast Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bolton, UK Posts: 1,236 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The invasion of the US was never a Japanese war aim; infact war with the US was not even aim! It was British, French and Dutch colonies that were the main target. The Japanese were relying on the Pearl Harbour raid to neutralise US power in the Pacific and push America towards leaving Japan a free hand in East Asia. The bottom line is that there was no plan to invade the US mainland armed populace or no. __________________

06-19-08, 07:47 PM	#3
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,379 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Well do we have access to any documentation of a sincere plan to invade the mainland? I know that Japan engaged in limited shelling and balloon bombing of the West coast. From my readings I always got the impression the intent was to constrain the American forces in the Pacific, that is prevent American interference in Japan's plans for SE Asia and East Asia. It would be interesting to see if there were any viable war plans for the invasion of the continental United States and see how they expected to do it. The problems for both side of the Pacific would be logistics. Unless the Japanese could secure a base either in Canada or Mexico, logistically supporting a land invasion of the US even from Pearl would be very difficult. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

06-20-08, 12:59 PM	#6
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Who ya gonna believe? The speculators on history? Or words taken from the horses mouth as to why the Japanese should now invade? The thought was abbandoned on Yamamoto's recomendation. He also pushed for not attacking Pearl Harbour, but lost that battle. At least I presented something. Why not give me backup of your opinions with Japanese history taken from the Japanese at the time? Opinions are pretty much worthless here it seems. And common I might add. Link me to hisotric speeches done by the Japanese during WWII!!! I see 'none'. -S __________________