Federal Stimulus being put to good use I see!

[Stealth Hunter]

In the U.S.?

:hmm:

Cavalry units had pretty much been deemed obsolete by that time, and the rest of the world realised it during World War I with the invention of the tank and airplane.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

In the U.S.?

:hmm:

Cavalry units had pretty much been deemed obsolete by that time, and the rest of the world realised it during World War I with the invention of the tank and airplane.

The US army was actually one of the least dependent on horses after industry was mobilized for war. The premier army of the time, the Wehrmact is included. Infantry marching alongside horses carrying heavy weapons.

I am not talking about cavalry. Horses were the primary form of moving equipment.

PD

[Stealth Hunter]

True. The German march under the Arc 'd Triomphe comes to mind.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

I can already picture some cow-poking town in the Midwestern United States having World War I vets gathering up Civil War family swords and rifles and shotguns preparing for the invasion. Probably would get horses together, too!

Hardly. What do you think? With all the guns America buys around here that Americans would be relying on 100 year old artifacts? Come on already! America is and has been for ages the worlds most heavily armed society. Most Americans probably had better rifles than the standard issue for the Japanese army at the time!

-S

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Hardly. What do you think? With all the guns America buys around here that Americans would be relying on 100 year old artifacts? Come on already! America is and has been for ages the worlds most heavily armed society. Most Americans probably had better rifles than the standard issue for the Japanese army at the time!

-S

Japan never invaded the US due to logistical problems and the small problem of the USN, USMC and US Army. Hawaii wasn't a viable target for invasion either as it was within range of US bombers and far from any Japanese held territory; the supply lines would have been far too long and vulnerable for any effective occupation to take place. The raid on Pearl was cut short by Nagumo partly due to his concerns over the amount of fuel they had left to get back to Japanese controlled waters, imagine the amounts needed to sustain an invasion!

I doubt that they were scared off because there were high levels of gun ownership in the US. Certainly in planning that would be a consideration, but a motly crew of civilians toting an assortment of hunting rifles, pistols etc would not have been much of a match for a trained and disciplined army. The other point to add is that most countries during the war raised some form of civilian defence force, e.g. the Home Guard in the UK; what were they if not armed civilians? There has never been any suggestion that the Germans found that this fact made Britain anymore daunting a prospect to attack.

[August]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

Japan never invaded the US due to logistical problems and the small problem of the USN, USMC and US Army. Hawaii wasn't a viable target for invasion either as it was within range of US bombers and far from any Japanese held territory; the supply lines would have been far too long and vulnerable for any effective occupation to take place. The raid on Pearl was cut short by Nagumo partly due to his concerns over the amount of fuel they had left to get back to Japanese controlled waters, imagine the amounts needed to sustain an invasion!

I doubt that they were scared off because there were high levels of gun ownership in the US. Certainly in planning that would be a consideration, but a motly crew of civilians toting an assortment of hunting rifles, pistols etc would not have been much of a match for a trained and disciplined army. The other point to add is that most countries during the war raised some form of civilian defence force, e.g. the Home Guard in the UK; what were they if not armed civilians? There has never been any suggestion that the Germans found that this fact made Britain anymore daunting a prospect to attack.

I think both of you are right imo. I think having to deal with a well armed and hostile populace was just one more reason for them not to attempt an invasion. Government rarely make such momentus decisions based on a single consideration. Life is way more complicated than that.

[Platapus]

A bunch of years ago there was this gang of home invaders operating in the state of Maryland. When they were finally caught, they were asked why did they only hit houses in Maryland and forgo the more wealthy homes in Virginia.

Their reply was that Virginia laws make it easier to own and carry guns.

Criminals love gun laws. Gun laws make criminal's lives easier

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by August

I think both of you are right imo. I think having to deal with a well armed and hostile populace was just one more reason for them not to attempt an invasion. Government rarely make such momentus decisions based on a single consideration. Life is way more complicated than that.

I think this says it all:

...Bob had told us that he’d been aboard the USS Constellation—he remembered the year as 1960—when he had been part of joint maneuvers conducted with what were by then called the Japanese Defense Forces. Over dinner and drinks, with Japanese and American naval officers talking shop, many of the WWII veterans, the question had come up, why didn’t the Japanese invade what they must have recognized as the wide open West Coast of the United States at the beginning of that war?


The officer had replied that his country was well aware that there was a high density of armed citizenry in America, even state championships for private citizens in the use of military rifles, and that the Japanese were not fools to set foot in such quicksand. Menard, even then a man committed to Second Amendment rights, naturally kept a vivid memory of the conversation....

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Hmm - seems even Yamamoto had an opinion:

"You cannot invade the mainland United States.
There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
(Japanese Navy)

-S

[mrbeast]

The invasion of the US was never a Japanese war aim; infact war with the US was not even aim! It was British, French and Dutch colonies that were the main target.

The Japanese were relying on the Pearl Harbour raid to neutralise US power in the Pacific and push America towards leaving Japan a free hand in East Asia.

The bottom line is that there was no plan to invade the US mainland armed populace or no.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

The invasion of the US was never a Japanese war aim; infact war with the US was not even aim! It was British, French and Dutch colonies that were the main target.

The Japanese were relying on the Pearl Harbour raid to neutralise US power in the Pacific and push America towards leaving Japan a free hand in East Asia.

The bottom line is that there was no plan to invade the US mainland armed populace or no.

BS. Care to support your argument with evidence? If the US were not armed to the teeth, then I can tell you that they would have tried.

Regardless, I proved my point from above. Its not that they didn't want to, it is because it was suicide. Still is.

-S

[Platapus]

Well do we have access to any documentation of a sincere plan to invade the mainland?

I know that Japan engaged in limited shelling and balloon bombing of the West coast.

From my readings I always got the impression the intent was to constrain the American forces in the Pacific, that is prevent American interference in Japan's plans for SE Asia and East Asia.

It would be interesting to see if there were any viable war plans for the invasion of the continental United States and see how they expected to do it.

The problems for both side of the Pacific would be logistics. Unless the Japanese could secure a base either in Canada or Mexico, logistically supporting a land invasion of the US even from Pearl would be very difficult.

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

BS. Care to support your argument with evidence? If the US were not armed to the teeth, then I can tell you that they would have tried.

Regardless, I proved my point from above. Its not that they didn't want to, it is because it was suicide. Still is.

-S

Subman, posting a couple of quotes off websites does not constitute proof of anything.

Besides I might ask you the same question, where is the evidence that Japan seriously planned and intended to invade the US? Where are the plans?

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

Subman, posting a couple of quotes off websites does not constitute proof of anything.

Besides I might ask you the same question, where is the evidence that Japan seriously planned and intended to invade the US? Where are the plans?

They didn't. At least during WWII.

They planned to stab the American fleet in the eye and sue for peace on terms that favored them. When that didn't work out, they hoped to fight a prolonged defensive action that they hoped the American populace would tire of eventually.

PD

[SUBMAN1]

Who ya gonna believe? The speculators on history? Or words taken from the horses mouth as to why the Japanese should now invade? The thought was abbandoned on Yamamoto's recomendation. He also pushed for not attacking Pearl Harbour, but lost that battle.

At least I presented something. Why not give me backup of your opinions with Japanese history taken from the Japanese at the time? Opinions are pretty much worthless here it seems. And common I might add. Link me to hisotric speeches done by the Japanese during WWII!!! I see 'none'.

-S