Affecting visual ranges

lancerr · 05-02-08, 08:52 AM

I know there's have been dispersed sets of discussions on affecting visual ranges in SH4 (but as part of other thread) but I wanted to see if we could create this thread to focus on that issue alone.

I am attempting to mod the excellent work done by Xantrokles on the Pocket BB to allow long range ship to ship combat.

Currently, I've been able to change the optical zoom distance for the deck gun to correspond closer to getvisual ranges of detection. However, a critical part of surface gunnery was to be able to spot the fall of shot through shell splashes and adjust for the next pattern.

That's where I'm running into problems. Adjusting zoom, shell splash height do not seem to affect the visibility of shell splashes and currently, I can only see them out to 4500 yards.

Does anyone have any ideas on where to look to modify this so that shell splashes can be seen out to 13000 yards (which is still less than the ideal range but we can work on getting small improvements first).

JoeCorrado · 05-02-08, 10:04 AM

The use of spotter planes was needed. That is why battleships were equipped with these spotters. It was impossible to adjust fire from the battleship itself without the use of spotter planes. The "splash" effect at 13,000 meters was simply not visible to the lookouts on board the ship.

Maybe these sim battleships need to be 'compelled' to make use of these spotters somehow? Each battleship was equipped with them for scouting and adjust fire.

lancerr · 05-02-08, 10:52 AM

I'm not sure about that. Here's an excerpt from Battle Bismarck - a survivor's account describing the encounter with the Hood where there was no use of spotter planes.

Pg 105. "The range I figured was less than 25000 meter. There were flashes like lightning out there. Still approaching nearly bow-on, the enemy had opened fire."

"Certain that we would immediately return fire, I braced myself..."

If the Bismarck and Hood were able to sight each other at 25000 yards, then they could also see the shell splashes that would often be as tall as the superstructure of a battleship.

Nisgeis · 05-02-08, 01:42 PM

At that range you don't have any depth perception, so if you could see the splashes, you could maybe say they were short or they were long, if they were directly in line with the target, but you wouldn't be able to say by how much. Submarine skippers saw some of their torpedoes exploding and it looked like they were hitting, but in fact they were exploding before they reached the target.

As JoeCorrado says, spotter planes could be used for longe range and also the radar manual talks about using radar to measure the range of shell splashes.

Fincuan · 05-02-08, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

At that range you don't have any depth perception, so if you could see the splashes, you could maybe say they were short or they were long, if they were directly in line with the target, but you wouldn't be able to say by how much.

Cant' they use the rangefinders for that? I don't know how it works at sea, but in the army the guy responsible for stereo range finding in my group could easily tell how far the splashes were from the target, even far beyond the 800 meters where you practically lose depth perception if you're only using naked eye. The device he used was a 70-centimeter one made in 1925, the precision being about 5 meters up to 1500 meters and deteriorating after that. A device made in 1925 might sound antique, but it worked damn well. I was especially happy to have it around whenever it was too foggy or rainy for the laser, which we normally used, to work properly.

Here's some info on the range finding equipment installed on Bismarck
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/technic...nder_bism.html

Nisgeis · 05-02-08, 04:38 PM

Hmmm, I seem to be having trouble posting just now...

Well, I was referring to the OP's 25 km range on the Bismarck with the naked eye. I don't know much about the stereoscopic range finders. As you say stereoscopic range finders lose range resolution the further away the target is, due to the angle changing less as the distance increases. At maximum firing range, would you have enough time to zero in on a splash with enough accuracy, considering all the smoke from your own guns? If you do, then that's another trick in the bag.

Lancerr, in particles.dat there should be a section regarding draw distances, near and far or something, I can't remember now and I'm not at my gaming PC. But I think that should allow you to adjust how far an effect gets drawn out to.

05-02-08, 08:52 AM	#1
lancerr Loader Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 88 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Affecting visual ranges I know there's have been dispersed sets of discussions on affecting visual ranges in SH4 (but as part of other thread) but I wanted to see if we could create this thread to focus on that issue alone. I am attempting to mod the excellent work done by Xantrokles on the Pocket BB to allow long range ship to ship combat. Currently, I've been able to change the optical zoom distance for the deck gun to correspond closer to getvisual ranges of detection. However, a critical part of surface gunnery was to be able to spot the fall of shot through shell splashes and adjust for the next pattern. That's where I'm running into problems. Adjusting zoom, shell splash height do not seem to affect the visibility of shell splashes and currently, I can only see them out to 4500 yards. Does anyone have any ideas on where to look to modify this so that shell splashes can be seen out to 13000 yards (which is still less than the ideal range but we can work on getting small improvements first). __________________ Best naval sim of all time - TF 1942

05-02-08, 10:04 AM	#2
JoeCorrado Weps Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 366 Downloads: 176 Uploads: 5	The use of spotter planes was needed. That is why battleships were equipped with these spotters. It was impossible to adjust fire from the battleship itself without the use of spotter planes. The "splash" effect at 13,000 meters was simply not visible to the lookouts on board the ship. Maybe these sim battleships need to be 'compelled' to make use of these spotters somehow? Each battleship was equipped with them for scouting and adjust fire. __________________ ============= My Game starts with GFO - Keepin' it real as it needs to be!

05-02-08, 10:52 AM	#3
lancerr Loader Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 88 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	I'm not sure about that. Here's an excerpt from Battle Bismarck - a survivor's account describing the encounter with the Hood where there was no use of spotter planes. Pg 105. "The range I figured was less than 25000 meter. There were flashes like lightning out there. Still approaching nearly bow-on, the enemy had opened fire." "Certain that we would immediately return fire, I braced myself..." If the Bismarck and Hood were able to sight each other at 25000 yards, then they could also see the shell splashes that would often be as tall as the superstructure of a battleship. __________________ Best naval sim of all time - TF 1942

05-02-08, 01:42 PM	#4
Nisgeis Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,909 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 11	At that range you don't have any depth perception, so if you could see the splashes, you could maybe say they were short or they were long, if they were directly in line with the target, but you wouldn't be able to say by how much. Submarine skippers saw some of their torpedoes exploding and it looked like they were hitting, but in fact they were exploding before they reached the target. As JoeCorrado says, spotter planes could be used for longe range and also the radar manual talks about using radar to measure the range of shell splashes.

05-02-08, 04:38 PM	#6
Nisgeis Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,909 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 11	Hmmm, I seem to be having trouble posting just now... Well, I was referring to the OP's 25 km range on the Bismarck with the naked eye. I don't know much about the stereoscopic range finders. As you say stereoscopic range finders lose range resolution the further away the target is, due to the angle changing less as the distance increases. At maximum firing range, would you have enough time to zero in on a splash with enough accuracy, considering all the smoke from your own guns? If you do, then that's another trick in the bag. Lancerr, in particles.dat there should be a section regarding draw distances, near and far or something, I can't remember now and I'm not at my gaming PC. But I think that should allow you to adjust how far an effect gets drawn out to.