Surface Warfare MoD Poll

[jdkbph]

The question in my mind is whether the SH4 AI and interface is capable of supporting the kinds of functions that a surface warfare sim would require? For instance, surface warships rarely engaged in combat independently (the German raiders being a notable exception). They were almost always accompanied by other warships in one or more formations.

So is the AI capable of maintaining at least rudimentary formations such as line astern, line abreast, eschelon, etc.?

Is the Interface capable of directing and managing formations of two or more ships, such as issuing orders to form or reform, change heading/speed, attach or detach, fire/hold fire, etc?

If not, from an historical simulation point of view, it's probably not worth the effort.

$.02

JD

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by jdkbph

The question in my mind is whether the SH4 AI and interface is capable of supporting the kinds of functions that a surface warfare sim would require? For instance, surface warships rarely engaged in combat independently (the German raiders being a notable exception). They were almost always accompanied by other warships in one or more formations.

So is the AI capable of maintaining at least rudimentary formations such as line astern, line abreast, eschelon, etc.?

Is the Interface capable of directing and managing formations of two or more ships, such as issuing orders to form or reform, change heading/speed, attach or detach, fire/hold fire, etc?

If not, from an historical simulation point of view, it's probably not worth the effort.

$.02

JD

Even though surface ships are controllable with the 1.5 Tactical Group thing, I remember reading it's impossible to modify so probably not

But consider this, You are the commander of a single surface ship, not the admiral of a Task Force, The campaign could be modified to send you with a certain Task Group or Task Force, So you can play a single surface ship that is a part of such a formation

[John W. Hamm]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

But consider this, You are the commander of a single surface ship, not the admiral of a Task Force, The campaign could be modified to send you with a certain Task Group or Task Force, So you can play a single surface ship that is a part of such a formation

Excellent point, not to mention from time to time, "though it was rare" surface ships did operate independent. And lets face it there are some things we just have to accept that we are limited on being able to reproduce with this game and its engine, but that doesn't meen we shouldn't try to do it. I certainly think it would be worth the effort. I can point out several threads of others asking for a Destoyer Commander 2, and alot of others just wanting to have surface ships or even a surface mod.

[horsa]

First the good news.

A surface warfare sim based on SH4 is worth doing, and I hope there is sufficient enthusiasm, skill, momentum and staying power needed to get there. I’d vote with my feet on that one. In that respect I wish you, John W Hamm, all the luck in your campaign to get a core team of enthusiasts going.

I say that first because what follows could well be interpreted as a case for not doing it.

The bad news

• Despite what many folk say about how they “can’t wait and would sell their grandmother to get one”, surface warfare has only limited real support in the long run. In the days when there was a surface sim, the Destroyer command forum was a backwater compared with Silent Hunter 2.

• It will never be everything you would want it to be. You will inevitably have to work with some very annoying limitations. SH4 was designed around a submarine and it will constantly catch you out.

Then there’s the issue of what type of surface sim is everybody talking about ?
Fleet actions ?
ASW ?

Ironically you may already have hit on the most suitable surface sim to match the game conditions that SH4 imposes on you – commerce raiding. Something like the Graf Spee operates as a lone hunter like the submarine and fits nicely into the existing mission, patrol and campaign structure.

ASW may come a close second but , failing some very ingenious modding, I can’t see how you can currently get round the issue how do DDs depth charge and where are the AI submarines ?

As to fleet actions, which is what many folk mean when they want surface action , they are inherently boring unless you can impose campaign consideration on it. A career progression like you have with subs just won’t do. One engagement just becomes like another. As a novelty item they are fine ( guns blazing etc) but there’s very little room for varied gameplay. I say that very reluctantly because this is the area that most interests me.

So my six penny worth , coming from somebody who has been involved in trying to find the holy grail of surface warfare sims for 6 years or more, is yes do it, but don’t expect a complete solution. Neither should you expect most of the folk who are currently making a lot of noise to be still with you 1 or 2 years further down the track.

Best of luck, John.

[The_Pharoah]

wow! always wanted to hear from a dev!

I see/read/hear what you're saying but I guess, for someone who loves sims and esp loves naval combat, I'm definitely in it for the long haul. Heck I only got 1.5 when I saw the DD addon that xantrokoles did.

I understand that large scale naval combat was a rare occurrance in the ETO (ie timelag between Graf spee, bismark, scharnhorst, etc battles) but it occurred quite a lot in the PTO which is where SHIV is concentrated on. besides, this is a hypothetical game anyway based roughly on real events that occurred and using equipment of the time. lets 'enjoy' it for what its worth.

any support that you, the dev team, could give in helping the modding community out would be greatly appreciated. hell, I've encouraged members of my online squad back into SHIV because of the surface combat option. we're all looking forward to some MP play (if possible) at a future lan sitting.

the demand is there.

[W4lt3r]

Heck, im in to support the surface warfare mod as well. I want change from the constant lurking and avoidance of the escort while i can take them head on with this

I do hope though you'll implement some light cruisers, such as the Atlanta or Oakland for US. I love those beauties ^^

[akdavis]

Originally Posted by horsa

Ironically you may already have hit on the most suitable surface sim to match the game conditions that SH4 imposes on you – commerce raiding. Something like the Graf Spee operates as a lone hunter like the submarine and fits nicely into the existing mission, patrol and campaign structure.

I actually think that patrol/torpedo boats is best surface fit for the sim, but then we should have Knights of the Sea at some point, which would kinda dampen the enthusiasm. Although, if KotS has taken a decided turn away from sim toward action game, there might still be a place for such a mod.